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So i will be the first one to say it. Lb buff might have been a little too big.
I fully expect a **** storm here because he was so weak for a long time. Just to make it clear, I called for lb buffs, I wanted another hero to be viable but who the hell buffs heroes like this? What we been having so far on every other hero? Conq, small dmg fixes and some shield charge nerf. Valk, some recoveries buffs. So all of these buffs been small and most of the time they worked, conq is actually not a spam machine now, valk is not too bad. Then comes lb buff and it's holy **** scripture of buffs.
DMG buff, recoveries buff, moves buff, parry buffs, and so on. Like... why? All of it in the same time? Why? Did no one think that maybe buff on everything is a little too much for any hero?
Obviously no one says anything because if you call hero op that was just super weak before, you are afraid that everyone will disagree. Also I do not believe that he is just completely op but lets take a damn good look here.
He got a guard that does not go dmg, so his defense is so much more easier than assassins, he can make use of turtle meta so much easier. He got some of the largest hp in the game. His parries give him **** ton of options. He can light if he wanna **** around, he can get top heavy on light parries for two bars of hp... Two bars, this is if kensei could get his unblockable top in on each gb, who would think that this is a right way to go? I play kensei and I sure don't want that bs to happen. So let me repeat it again, two bars of hp gone of heroes that have 4.5-5 bars, while he has 6. Then if you wanna be even safer, just impale on parry, thats some dmg, and you will push them on a wall because there walls everywhere, and get that side heavy for even more dmg. Or you might just push them off the cliff as well.
Then his moves also drain stam on hits, like lots of them. So when he is out of stam, no worry, cause likely so are you. This is if orochis top light also ate your stam, just for the ****s of it.
So I really do not believe that a hero with high hp pool, stam dmg mix ups, and good parries, needed that much dmg off his parries. Thats my real only gripe with him. It's like if they finally fixed orochi but also game him stam dmg moves and higher hp pool, that be ******ed, right? Cause he already deals high dmg himself.
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Holy **** buddy, have you played conqueror versus anyone competent above Rep 2?Originally Posted by M0nso0n Go to original post
"small" nerf my ***. He got the bat.
I personally agree with your post calling for a very minor nerf to LB, I too, was calling for LB buffs. I like the continued viability of shove -> GB -> heavy, so I only think a small damage nerf is in order, but I do agree in general.
P.S **** orochi. He doesn't need a nerf, but he certainly doesn't need a buff. If you can't win with orochi, hop on over to AI and watch, they handle him correctly. (Or at the very least, input perfect button presses.) The bots don't even use his full kit. Heavy unblockable stab on deflect is very powerful as it is, not to mention light attack spam.
Do note: He doesn't need a nerf. I just see this thread calling for orochi buffs and it sickens me.
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The conq nerf, I really don't know what else could they have done. He is one trick pony that could spam two moves till out of stam and could not be punished if someone did dodge it. He was op, that was the only way they could nerf him and if someone says it's too much of a nerf for him I can kind of see the point, except I still think that now he is more balanced.Originally Posted by Rye.Bread. Go to original post
As for orochi, I win with him, quite a lot actually, quite a whole lot actually, but not because he is a good hero. I am not here to argue skill levels though. Orochi is in general a very weak hero. Here what you do when you fight orochi, block right, and he got only top light left. If you somehow still having a hard time, like not saying you are bad, maybe that orochi is just master mind player who got ungodly feints. What you do is, do not try to parry, just hold your block and watch him crumble because he quite literally can't do a damn thing about it. He will make mistakes and you will win. In fact, best orochi players play him warden style, heres the issue though, just play warden instead and you got it all plus more.
Back to lb, ok, so I am not the only one who was conflicted on this. Because he just got buffed, we still needed time to see how to fight him now, but just because of the sheer size of the buff on everything, I kinda was feeling that with all mixups he got, hp, stam dmg, parry options, and so on, that the dmg he got on parries is kind of just a bit too high.
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I dont want to be an *** but lawbringer needs to get buffed. He is a noob killer but that is it. Once you go to somewhat higher play you're having your butt handed to you. Everything is parried or dodged. He is to slow and is very predictable. The light after shove is parryable (tested this myself). We also have low range for such a long weapon. We do not have a light combo so every heavy is a bigass risk to take and we have our stamina eaten by all attacks we do. We need more speed and moves to be viable in this game.
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I've been getting ***-on-plattered by level 3 bots playing orochi. I'm rep 3 with conq by this point. This absolute biggest thing is the long recovery time on conqueror that prevents you from blocking and parrying followup attacks from orochi (and valkyrie light chain) if he lands 1 attack, they don't even have to switch guards from what I have seen. Normally 1 attack is no problem with most characters, you can block or parry, but not with conq. As for spam I completely agree, his moveset is based entirely around 2 moves and was very lazily designed. He needs more moves is what I have been saying for a long time.Originally Posted by M0nso0n Go to original post
I mean hell, I play warden or lawbringer and these same exact characters are 0% problems. I do think Orochi though has a lot of moves and lots of different tactics. He's already fast. The only buff I would ever be ok with is one that prevents the roach cancer he used to be from returning. Make his auxiliary moves like the backstep attack and rush attack more viable. Also, his deflect heavy should either be blockable or consume lots of stamina to use. I've faced orochi sit there and spam that, WHICH FROM MY TIME AS A CONQEUROR IS AN INDICATON THAT OTHER MOVES MAY NOT BE VIABLE.
So
What needs to be done to orochi:
a) absolutely no attack speed or raw damage increases.
b) Upgrade reflex: Your reflex guard activates in the opposite direction of your dash/roll/thing. (you roll left while getting a limited guard to the right)
c) Hurricane blast is now blockable. This makes it useful to use Wind Gust
d) Storm Rush is now feintable during the rush.
e) Riptide strike setup time increased by 250 ms, now unblockable.
f) zephyr slash can now be fainted.
Basically a lot of stuff to force you to use other options, but make this options more viable during regular play. A lot of focus on counter play and feints. This will improve utility at high levels.
What needs done to conqueror:
a) Bring back all-block panic button. (Used to be when wounded you can cancel recovery, expend stamina, and go straight into all-block stance. This was very fair.)
b) Standardize recovery times when wounded across all heroes. Other slow heroes probably suffer like conq does.
c) add way more moves to conqueror. Way more things and options with his shield. Face bashes, spacers, mobility, etc. Would be interesting to see a move where he just slams downward on them with his shield after a parry to knock them down to the ground. The focus here should be defensive options that engage into offensive options when correctly used/defended against enemy.
d)Don't give him any statistical damage buffs. He's the dedicated NAH NAH NAH BOO BOO YOU CANT KILL ME class. Defense>Offense
Really just bring him back to where he was pre-patch in terms of tankiness, as it was very good, but replacing the spam with more options.
