Variety declining, "pro"-playstyles bleeding through | Forums

[Herbstlicht]

Dunno what you are experiencing these days, but i got the feeling, there is almost no more variety when fighting the majority of classes. Guess Orochi is the worst, being a 2-move character with an occasional sideattack thrown in, followed by wardens trying their vortex. After those, well, it is pretty much "the others" with the exception of Kensei, Zerker, Nobushi, Big-axe and Big-Club guy. Those four seem to be the most varied fights, though shugoki sometimes feels incredibly stupid to fight against.

Furthermore, even on console, if you are not on an ultra fast character, people adapt an increasingly defensive playstyle. I can't tell how stupid it feels to fight vs Orochi that only defend and occasionally spam za or top light. They don't even do their stupid rush due to the likely punish.

Hell, where is the fun in that? Fighting bot's only is boring too :/

[CandleInTheDark]

The problem with the orochi as far as I see it comes in how people treat the storm rush and zephyr strike, the orochi is a counter attacker (according to his description anyhow) and those moves, as well as their deflects, are the best punishers for over aggression in the game (defensive meta aside, that does need to be dealt with). Most orochi telegraph their storm rush and I roll my eyes and ready to deflect into it for bleed but used properly it is a powerful tool, and I never see zephyr strike but they can punish a good deal of injudicious heavies. (Bearing in mind this is going off of guides on youtube and a bit of bot practice, though they are the only assassiin or quasi-assassin (meaning valkyrie or nobushi) I have no levels in so I may change that sooner or later)

[K1ngFlippyN1ps]

Dunno what you are experiencing these days, but i got the feeling, there is almost no more variety when fighting the majority of classes. Guess Orochi is the worst, being a 2-move character with an occasional sideattack thrown in, followed by wardens trying their vortex. After those, well, it is pretty much "the others" with the exception of Kensei, Zerker, Nobushi, Big-axe and Big-Club guy. Those four seem to be the most varied fights, though shugoki sometimes feels incredibly stupid to fight against.

Furthermore, even on console, if you are not on an ultra fast character, people adapt an increasingly defensive playstyle. I can't tell how stupid it feels to fight vs Orochi that only defend and occasionally spam za or top light. They don't even do their stupid rush due to the likely punish.

Hell, where is the fun in that? Fighting bot's only is boring too :/

I can feel ya man. I like to go balls to the wall and just attack till my opponent dies, albeit not without thought in each strike. It does get very boring when the average player or above average player tries to implement "pro" tactics and turtle up. I usually adapt to how my opponent plays so if they want to turtle I'll just stand there. Had a dude not attack me before for an entire round, he was a warlord and literally refused to attack so the timer went all the way down with no one throwing out an attack! There's no avoiding it but if you don't care about k/d and aren't trying to be all MLG, just let them have their fun and go ape with attacks and let them whoop you so you can move on to another queue. Your frustration will dissipate and the other person can feel like a big **** gamer legend lol. As games like these grow, people will always choose the "most viable" ways to play for wins/ characters instead of just going to have a good time. Everyone wants to be the next Summit1G it seems sometimes

[psyminion]

I'm all about an entertaining fight and I have no problem making crazy mistakes just for it to pay off once and be a wow moment.
im victorious slightly more than 54% of the time, but as long as I simply kill a little more than I die I'm happy to be a flashy orochi.

imho the turtle meta should be shunned by the community and those players that will actually do nothing in a 'fight' should be shunned.

[secrecy274]

There're two kinds of players.
The players that tries (keyword) to be skillful and utilize most if not their entire moveset.
And the players that spam the same moves over and over.

The only difference are how rewarding the class are for each.
Warlord, Conq (pre-nerf) Peacekeeper (console) etc rewards spam.
Kensei (pre-buff), Orochi, Lawbringer (pre-buff) does not.

[CandleInTheDark]

There're two kinds of players.
The players that tries (keyword) to be skillful and utilize most if not their entire moveset.
And the players that spam the same moves over and over.

The only difference are how rewarding the class are for each.
Warlord, Conq (pre-nerf) Peacekeeper (console) etc rewards spam.
Kensei (pre-buff), Orochi, Lawbringer (pre-buff) does not.

Yeah this is very much the case within the individual heroes mentioned,I try to use the entire peacekeeper kit, bleeds,cancels, deflects,feints, etc and honestly it is too rewarding to use her spam at all levels on the console so people are going to do that.Same when I played warden, I tried to play the feint game looking for guardbreaks or crushing counterstrike and keept the shoulder charge for when it could punish a mistake, best one I had was dodging a forward dodge attack, bash into wall, guaranteed top heavy execution. The thing is the higher up people get, the more likely the anything for a win attitude will creep in and they will go to the easiest route possible, meaning those that don't have to be more skilled than them just to get the same reward.

[Gray360UK]

When I am occassionally forced into Duel and Brawl because of Daily Orders, the way they fight is quite sad to me. Many people are so afraid to move wrong, spend all of their time feinting, are terrified of making a mistake or being the first to attack ... it reduces so much of the combat to a pale shadow of what it could be, with most of the moveset abandoned because of risk.

Makes me realise how different the playstyle is in 4 vs 4. We practically have two different games on our hands.

I can spot 1 vs 1 people in 4 vs 4 matches because they are very bad at countering external threats and waste a lot of time feinting and guard shifting, only to get shot in the face by a Longbow or hit over the back of the head by a Raider Likewise a 4 vs 4 player like me does none of the expected things in 1 vs 1, which often works in my favour, because to them I am totally unpredictable and do few of the things they are expecting me to do.

4 vs 4 is where characters really shine, because the chaos allows you to use any move you like. 1 vs1 I find very dull and safe and predictable in comparison.

[Bob__Gnarly]

The game needs a big shake up, the turtle meta needs to go.

What I don't understand is why block damage and block resistance are even a thing on gear. They're ridiculously under powered. Make chip damage more effective, that would be a step in the right direction.

[secrecy274]

When I am occassionally forced into Duel and Brawl because of Daily Orders, the way they fight is quite sad to me. Many people are so afraid to move wrong, spend all of their time feinting, are terrified of making a mistake or being the first to attack ... it reduces so much of the combat to a pale shadow of what it could be, with most of the moveset abandoned because of risk.

Makes me realise how different the playstyle is in 4 vs 4. We practically have two different games on our hands.

I can spot 1 vs 1 people in 4 vs 4 matches because they are very bad at countering external threats and waste a lot of time feinting and guard shifting, only to get shot in the face by a Longbow or hit over the back of the head by a Raider Likewise a 4 vs 4 player like me does none of the expected things in 1 vs 1, which often works in my favour, because to them I am totally unpredictable and do few of the things they are expecting me to do.

4 vs 4 is where characters really shine, because the chaos allows you to use any move you like. 1 vs1 I find very dull and safe and predictable in comparison.

You have a good point here.
I play mainly Duel and Brawl, so when I first fought an friend who was new to the game he almost won the first round because he were so bad, he caught me of guard multiple times by doing something no experienced Duel player ever would. Luckily for me ego he didn't won though.

However, I've had the opposite experience in 4v4s, people are so desperate to get the kill now now NOW!!! that they make mistakes or spam the same light, so an experienced Duel player (like me) can often mop them up without too much trouble (this of course does not extend to every 4v4 player, just the majority).

[CandleInTheDark]

When I am occassionally forced into Duel and Brawl because of Daily Orders, the way they fight is quite sad to me. Many people are so afraid to move wrong, spend all of their time feinting, are terrified of making a mistake or being the first to attack ... it reduces so much of the combat to a pale shadow of what it could be, with most of the moveset abandoned because of risk.

Makes me realise how different the playstyle is in 4 vs 4. We practically have two different games on our hands.

I can spot 1 vs 1 people in 4 vs 4 matches because they are very bad at countering external threats and waste a lot of time feinting and guard shifting, only to get shot in the face by a Longbow or hit over the back of the head by a Raider Likewise a 4 vs 4 player like me does none of the expected things in 1 vs 1, which often works in my favour, because to them I am totally unpredictable and do few of the things they are expecting me to do.

4 vs 4 is where characters really shine, because the chaos allows you to use any move you like. 1 vs1 I find very dull and safe and predictable in comparison.

On the same note I can tell when my whole team plays skirmish more often when in dominion. A large portion of one game the other team had all three zones and they had two people floating between them who would always get me soon after I captured one and I swear every time I died, all three were in the centre,mostly hacking at minions.One of them left and was replaced by a bot as we eventually went to about 600 from 700-50 down but yeah whether in the individual combat or in objectives,people need to learn to play the game mode. I suspect the only way a duel or brawl type will do well in dominion is when the devs make constant defence not as strong as it is.