Orochi balance | Forums

[Desu_Vulthala]

Let me just state of the bat, I play orochi, yeah, not gonna deny that. I also play 3 other heroes, valk, warlord, and kensei.

In general my opinion about most of them was the same as everyone elses. I wanted kensei to get buffed, which he did but he still needs some work, since not able to take one bar of hp on gb without wall throw if pretty bad. I thought valk was ok, maybe just needed some small tweaks. I thought that warlord needed a nerf, while I still play him.

So how is any of this connect to orochi? I play orochi but I just wanted to show that I don't just want my heroes to be op just cause I play them. Glad warlord got a nerf but back to the topic. Every single time someone releases their tier list, orochi is somewhere in the middle but lets be honest, he is quite bad, like got almost nothing bad.

Before people start raving how they do great with their orochi and so on, yeah, it's possible but you know how? You play like warden. You all know what it means. You don't use any of your moves, no side dodge attacks, no riptide strike, no storm rush. You just stand in someone face, feint and bait out a parry into top heavy or top lights and zone. In truth, I use as much moves on orochi as I can but I know thats stupid. I can do quite well with him most of the time but it really shows how trully bad the hero is when you face decent people one on one. In fact, you might as well just play warden, since you actually have more viable moves, he is actually one of few if not only heroes in the game who can make use of all of his kit without being punished for it easily.

As you can guess, yeah I do believe orochi needs a buff, call me crazy and derail the topic into oblivion, or think about what he really got and you will likely agree. No one who has played this game for some time says, orochi is so op, like no one. Everyone knows he got two moves and thats it, top light combo and zone. You can even ignore flicker and just hold your guard on right and never get hit by zone anyways because you know it's coming.

His storm rush is only good for fake outs and when you are helping to gank, and it does not even do that much dmg. it is heavily telegraphed, easy to parry in any situation, and you can even get hit out of it if they just spam lights. The timing on top light follow up is now huge as well, you can easily get blocked after storm rush.

Riptide is just worthless move, you can't even feint it. There is absolutely no reason to use it when you got parry, which you can feint if they feint. The only time I use it successfully is against someone who is just hands down worse than me. In short, it is not a tool that can be used with people of your own skill.

The side dodge attacks, like does anyone even use them? It's a free parry and if you just dodge without doing an attack, it's free gb on you. The solution is, don't dodge near people.

This really just leaves you with one game style, stand in their face, feint, parry, top light and zone, also get that zone blocked because people are already used to it. You run out of stamina like crazy, you can't do **** when out of stamina either. You will be lucky if they start to gb spam, in that case you can just cgb and be fine but if they try to hit you, you better block the, and not even try to parry cause if they feint, you can't feint ****. I know that no one can feint while out of stam but hey, look at pk not having exhaustion penalty on dodges while out of stam, while already being better than orochi in every way.

Just for comparison sakes, here what we got.

Pk, better than orochi in practically every way, better feats, better attack speed, bleeds, better out of stam, better dodges, better dps, better zone.

Zerker, better feints, better attack speed, better dmg, got hyperarmor.

Warden just a better orochi

The list can go on, but these 3 are main examples of wtf is wrong with orochi. Don't worry, all other heroes got their nearly full proof methods of how to beat orochi, except for maybe kensei and raider.

[Desu_Vulthala]

I wanna bring this up so devs are actually aware of this. It seems like everyone in game agrees that orochi is very weak. He is barely in any tournaments. Everyone on forums always regard him being pretty weak but no one seem to actually make a post about it.

Devs clearly listen since they did netf conq and made it so you can punish him. Maybe we can add something to orochi that would make him actually viable. Nearly all of his moves are not being used and quite honestly people will simply do better with other heroes. Wanna play like orochi plays now? Play warden and do even better. Wanna play actual good assassin? Play literally any other assassin.

[Rye.Bread.]

I don't know, as a conqueror, orochis seem to be able to just sit there and stun-lock heavy or light attacks (I can never tell which ones from them. The ones that make their GRORIOUS NIPPON STEER BRADES go ZING).

I digress, they seem to be able to just stand in front of me and stunlock me with attacks until I die. I assume it's heavies because they get an execution right after. It's a huge pain and it only happens with orochi, valk (but only with light attacks), and kensei (but only because I need more practice vs kensei).

[Desu_Vulthala]

Thats what I mean, they stand in front of you and just attack, they don't use any of their moves, do they? Also no offense but you do need more practice in blocking and parrying if they can simply spam heavies in your face. I mean orochi literally got slowest attack speed from all assassins and just one of the slowest in the game for side hits on both lights and heavies, so as long as you block top, you are good. Their feints are also just ways to get that top light, the problem though, if you are going against anyone who is not assassin, all they got to do is not try to parry and just block, and they will never get hit by it.

I also really don't know how are you having trouble with orodhi, that hero been pretty much trash tier since people learned the game and now he has no place in any high level play. While he already takes considerable effort to do well with against decent player, not even talking really good skill level here.

[Desu_Vulthala]

What I suggest is making storm rush more viable. That be one step in right direction and then see if he needs more buffs or not. Basically I do like to see distance on it slightly increased, why? Because the distance at which you can feint or gb cancel need to be increased greatly to make it not a **** move. Right now you can feint it only at the start, anything beyond two steps and you are commited, keep in mind, thats with it already being super predictable and easy to parry attack. It be nice if you could feint it at 3-4 steps and gb window should be even bigger than that.

It might seem obscene to make gb window large but lets all take a look at what you got to do to land it now. Get into someones face, like literally so close that you can't even take another step, then storm rush, then time it right for gb to even land. This is a **** ton of things you got to do perfectly and thats not even counting that your enemy just lets you do it all, which he likely wont. They will either try to hit you, or try to feint, which will throw you off, and so on. Basically right now everything got to go perfect for you and you know whats the biggest issue is? If everyone starts doing it, everyone will learn it by second week and will never get hit by it.

What I also like to see, is you being able to swap the direction you are hitting from while you release it. Meaning as you run towards them, you can swap from left to right and so on right before you go into an attack. This will give orochi some actual mind game, he can either feint it, go into gb that actually viable and not only before third step, or switch direction of an attack.

In short, something has to be done for that hero, because right now your perfect play style is. Learn how to react to feints. Stand in their face, ignore all of your moves, never dodge or dodge attack, never deflect. Just bait out a parry, punish for falling to your feint, use flicker for zone. Thats it, it's ****ing shallow as it gets and very very predictable. People say orochi got two attacks, how about just block right, which most people do now anyways, and he got only one viable move. One.

Let me repeat it,



One.

[Cuculis]

" Zerker, better feints, better attack speed, better dmg, got hyperarmor. "

Did you just say that zerker has better speed than oro?

I have a rank 9 zerker, geared all that. I can tell you that zerker has super slow attack speed which is why he is underpowered among other reasons. Orochi has amazingly fast attack speed.

[Desu_Vulthala]

" Zerker, better feints, better attack speed, better dmg, got hyperarmor. "

Did you just say that zerker has better speed than oro?

I have a rank 9 zerker, geared all that. I can tell you that zerker has super slow attack speed which is why he is underpowered among other reasons. Orochi has amazingly fast attack speed.

Yes... he does, have you tried orochis side hits? If you are talking about orochis top hits or zone, then yeah they are faster, but the issue is, people just keep their block on top and orochi got nothing.

[Cuculis]

Monsoon I just played you in a match, you are playing warlord, one of the most op classes atm. And you want another OP class to get buffed?? Even oro's side hits are faster than zerkers and WAY less advertised.

[Desu_Vulthala]

Go play a Raider for a few weeks, and then you'll start to appreciate how well-off and blessed the Cokrochis are from the start.

It doesn't have as many OP moves as the "OP-4" classes, but if you can't do well with what you're given, then hoo boy do you have a problem.

Ok bro, how is this doing anything for any post? You say play raider? Ok, everyone knows that raider needs a buff, but how does that changes anything for orochi? Just cause there is even weaker hero, does not mean that slightly stronger but still weak hero does not need a buff. Also please do not assume, I do quite well with orochi, but thats not cause the hero is good or even close to being good. We are not here to measure our ****s and talk about individual skill level though and I could rip into you for assuming generic **** like he wants hero buffed that means he sucks! But i wont, cause thats not what we are doing here.

So raider sucks, yeah, he needs a buff. Although orochi is not even close to top 4, like not even close. I do believe he is in button 5, for me in bottom 3 but this varies with opinion, still not above worst 5th for anyone I bet.

[Desu_Vulthala]

Monsoon I just played you in a match, you are playing warlord, one of the most op classes atm. And you want another OP class to get buffed?? Even oro's side hits are faster than zerkers and WAY less advertised.

Yeah, we actually just played a match. Why I remember that is because in the end of a match you said that I suck and do nothing but headbut and throw off ledges, when i actually threw off only 2 out of 15 that I killed, and that was during big cluster **** fights, and even after I headbut I used very unsafe combo of stab into light into heavy, thats two chances for enemy to parry me and I know it. In short, whats your point?

This being said, yeah, warlord if still very strong, I would not call him outright op anymore after a nerf, but he is top tier no question. So please, lets not make this personal. I called for warlord nerfs when I played him. I do not want to play op classes and I am sure you feel the same, because if I am not mistaken you were a raider or something, even if not, I remember a match and I don't think your team had any top tiers in it. If I wanted to be op beast, I would play pk instead, no one can deny that she is the best assassin and one of the top 3 in the game. Why I played warlord? I wanted to chose one vanguard, one assassin, one hybrid, and one heavy for myself. It just so happened that I personally think warlord was less op than conq when I picked it, just an opinion. I also really hated playing shugoki.

So bro no hate but come on, do you really believe that orochi is op or even close to being good? Cause then you be in odds. I just picked up berserker after our match, rep 0 lvl 3, gear score 0 and you know how I felt? Holy ****, he is better than orochi, he is easier to play, he got more openers because of his feints and he got better dmg, to back this **** up, I went 15/6 my first match and was 1st and 2nd on score board for 3 matches on a row, as gear score 0 vs purple geared people. My point here is thought not that zerk is op, hell no he is not, but orochi compared to him sure seem weak. Hell, comparing to almost entire roaster he is weak.

In truth is, anyone can do well if they play like top orochis play. The warden styleeeeee of doing nothing but parrying and countering. This does not change a fact how you can't make use, or should not, of any of orochi's moves.