First step to fight with turtle meta | Forums

[darkspawn2101]

lWhat?
Yes the attack will use more stamina. At the live state, he uses stamina and the defender does not. Further more, yes, he can get parried, that's a risk. The reward is, you can actually hit the enemy and do damage.


If you have no stamina, and you block, you take small amount of damage.

So, essentially, it becomes a game of 'who has better stamina management gear' and can support their agression.

Trading one meta for another, no thanks. Hell, the new meta would be entirely gear reliant, double nope.

[darkspawn2101]

Chip damage is basically nonexistant in this game. I have never been in a fight and thought "Hey, I should pressure my opponent by beating against his guard with heavy attacks!" The minuscule amount of damage I do on blocked attacks is not worth the extremely high chance of a raw heavy getting parried.

And in the few places it -is- existant, like Warlords headbutt, it's done poorly and screamed about by the community.

[Alchemist..]

lWhat?
Yes the attack will use more stamina. At the live state, he uses stamina and the defender does not. Further more, yes, he can get parried, that's a risk. The reward is, you can actually hit the enemy and do damage.

Ok but where is risk = reward for blocking? They still can just wait for the easy parry without risk.
The bigger the cost of a stamina when an attacker uses it more anyway? Something like this can only work if the blocker uses more stamina than the attacker. The bigger the cost of stamina for the blocker will not change anything until the attacker uses it more.

[Dude_of_Valor]

Isn't the whole purpose of the game to be patient and punish your opponent? Even as an aggressive class you can't just go charging in and expect to win against people that know what they are doing.

Secondly is this Turtling only a PC thing? Not really experienced it on Xbox but then maybe I am not playing good players

[Alchemist..]

Isn't the whole purpose of the game to be patient and punish your opponent? Even as an aggressive class you can't just go charging in and expect to win against people that know what they are doing.

Secondly is this Turtling only a PC thing? Not really experienced it on Xbox but then maybe I am not playing good players

Patience will not do anything because the turtles will always be waiting for your move then what? The most turtling of players starts from mid-high tier. There is also different types of turtling,im still in mid tier so i do not meet them so often but when I check fhtracker, thats most played with 75+ winrate(high tier). PK, dodging back, rolling back and poke u occasionally, waiting for your move to interrupt you with fast attacks, gb u. Wardens, interrupting u with zone all the time, everything that is doing its top light and zone, occasionally try to bash u. Valk always going back to full block and waiting to bash u with leg sweap, if she miss, dodging back to full block, always play in long range to not reach her. Conq loading mace and waiting for u, generally waiting for parry/block to gb u and start bashing. Generally very good players in parry, i even met people who could 100% parry my helm splitter( very fast move with little parry window) Whatever you did they will be waiting for your move and parry punish you or interrupt you

[Dizzy4213]

I don't think making block cost stamina is the way to go. That would really hurt characters like Lawbringer who Shoves off of block. It will also benefit assassins more so than others since they could just dodge instead.

I think the fix for the defensive meta is pretty simple. Just add meaningful block damage. Most heavies do around 30 damage, if the chip damage from blocking a heavy was 10 damage or so people would soon stop turtling. If you want to take no damage then you'll have to go for a parry but then you take the risk that the opponent might go for a feint. I don't think light attacks should do any chip damage otherwise it will be unfair to the slower heroes.

[MrForz]

I've read someone trying to take a completly different approach on the defense:

Increase chip damage on block.
Less punishing options after parry such as GB.

Parrying would be the new blocking, more or less, and simply blocking would only take you so far. It would encourage being more aggressive. Though I believe PK and Zerker would need so major tweaks in that environment. Well, PK already needs some right now.

[Alchemist..]

Giving a free DM will create another unhealthy meta with light spam because there is no defense for this or any skill and it's not just pk and zerker. Every character has quick attacks that are hard to parry like orochi zone or top light, this puts you in a situation without any defense

[Dude_of_Valor]

Patience will not do anything because the turtles will always be waiting for your move then what? The most turtling of players starts from mid-high tier. There is also different types of turtling,im still in mid tier so i do not meet them so often but when I check fhtracker, thats most played with 75+ winrate(high tier). PK, dodging back, rolling back and poke u occasionally, waiting for your move to interrupt you with fast attacks, gb u. Wardens, interrupting u with zone all the time, everything that is doing its top light and zone, occasionally try to bash u. Valk always going back to full block and waiting to bash u with leg sweap, if she miss, dodging back to full block, always play in long range to not reach her. Conq loading mace and waiting for u, generally waiting for parry/block to gb u and start bashing. Generally very good players in parry, i even met people who could 100% parry my helm splitter( very fast move with little parry window) Whatever you did they will be waiting for your move and parry punish you or interrupt you

Any shield character that goes into full shield I would just leave them alone (this is 1v1). The loose stamina and if you are too far away they are not exactly going to do anything.

Same with the conqueror, just let them be. This is where you need to be patient.

I agree that people do seem to be good at parrying, and that is why zone attacks and fast light attacks are best. As hard as it is, being patient can be your friend. People make mistakes when they see you constantly moving but always just out of reach. The key I find is knowing when to go full rage and when to back off.

As for helping prevent a defensive meta, perhaps reduce the time for each duel and have it so those with the least amount of health looses. Thus it forces someone to open up and be aggressive or work around someones defence.

[Alchemist..]

I was patient but after a minute of looking at the opponent who stood still and waited for my attack I simply preferred to lose and start another game. This is a fighting game not a chess simulator