A case for lawbringer's "guaranteed" light after shove | Forums

[Extropy]

I'm sure most of us have noticed "strange" behavior with the lawbringer's shove after the patch, so let me explain what it is and what it isn't.

First of all the LB has two shoves that work differently in this regard, the first shove is the one he does from neutral, he has to dash forward or to the side and press gb in order to shove. It is a fairly slow and easily dodgeable move. According to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPF_QafJ4jY&t=111s it's 700 ms, compared to the warlord's headbutt and conqueror's shield bash, both of which are 500 ms, which means it takes almost 50% longer.

The second shove is guaranteed whenever the LB blocks an attack, I've heard that assassins can dodge it sometimes but I've never had that happen to me.

Now, what's happening after the patch is that the first shove gives you a guaranteed light attack if you hit the direction your target was guarding before the shove, so if you shove someone guarding up and then do a light attack up it will be guaranteed. Even so it's hard to do if the target constantly changes his guard before the hit, and flat out never works on assassins since they have their different guard system.

The second shove as far as I know never gives anything guaranteed, I've repeatedly tried attacking the same direction i blocked the attack from and they were always able to block or even parry it. (Not 100% on this part, if it does give guaranteed lights after blocking, that does need a fix, I've tested it on bots and they seem to be able to block or dodge it)

Also worth pointing out that shove has no real mixups, it can't be feinted or canceled into guard break, the only thing you can do is dash forward and gb instead of shoving but this almost never works. The move is easily dodged on react by just being ready when the lb dashes and pushing dodge when the icon shows up.

So the bottom line is that for all intents and purposes what we have here is a flat out inferior version of the guaranteed attack the warlord gets after a headbutt. Shove is much easier to dodge, it takes more skill to land the attack after the shove hits, it doesn't work on assassins and it doesn't work from the guaranteed shove after blocking.

In conclusion, in my opinion they should leave it as it is, or make it a fully guaranteed attack (only off the first shove obviously), exactly like the warlord's.
At the very least, you could stop complaining about it maybe? Sure it's a bug and bugs should be fixed but in the grand scheme of things this is not really a big deal, you just have to dodge one move that you're used to ignoring, deal with it.


EDIT: I forgot LB can also shove after hitting with a heavy attack, not sure how that shove works in this regard but either way i think that one shouldn't give a free light either, just the dash one from neutral.

[Netcode_err_404]

"n conclusion, in my opinion they should leave it as it is"

If i wanted to be a lamer, i would have picked warden.

Free damage is ********.

[Extropy]

It's not free damage, you can dodge the shove, if you fail to dodge an easily dodged move you get a light hit, seems fair to me.

[Netcode_err_404]

It's not free damage, you can dodge the shove, if you fail to dodge an easily dodged move you get a light hit, seems fair to me.

You can roll out a shugoki 50/50 run charge, thats doesn't make him fine.

[Neqva]

No, it isn't fine, and it isn't fine for Warlords or Conqs to have a free hit after Headbutt or Shieldbash. (I main a Conq myself).

You have mixups and unblockable attacks, that is more than enough, Warlords are all over decent imo, so they don't need the free hit either. Conqs, well Conqs don't have anything else, no real feints, no mixups, just SB and free hit. I would love to get some other options tbh, and don't really feel like anyone should have anything that gives free hits, including Conqs.

What people need, are mixups, mindgames etc, stuff to be able to open people up.

[Extropy]

I don't get the logic here. What's the difference between an attack and an unblockable push?

For example

Raider unblockable zone ---> fail to dodge or parry ----> take damage = FINE

but

Warlord headbutt ---> fail to dodge ---> take damage = NOT FINE

I just don't get the fundamental difference, if it's possible to defend against a move, why shouldn't it do damage when you fail to do so?

If you think these moves like the headbutt are too difficult to dodge or too safe to use or too spammable, that's a different conversation and I might agree, but it seems to me that you guys are saying that "free damage" on an unblockable push move is wrong and should never ever be a thing and that just makes no sense.

[Netcode_err_404]

I don't get the logic here. What's the difference between an attack and an unblockable push?

For example

Raider unblockable zone ---> fail to dodge or parry ----> take damage = FINE

but

Warlord headbutt ---> fail to dodge ---> take damage = NOT FINE

I just don't get the fundamental difference, if it's possible to defend against a move, why shouldn't it do damage when you fail to do so?

If you think these moves like the headbutt are too difficult to dodge or too safe to use or too spammable, that's a different conversation and I might agree, but it seems to me that you guys are saying that "free damage" on an unblockable push move is wrong and should never ever be a thing and that just makes no sense.

ARe you seerious ?

Raider ZA takes half stamina, and is fricking slow. so that means can be parried or dodged.

Warlord headbutt pushes you away, literally 0 stamina cost, cannot be parried and on top of that is istant. Im not even calling the others Warlord's advantages over 90% of the classes.

See the differences here ?

Im staring toi think for those of us who don't like free cheap damage/spam stuff, for honor may be just the wrong game. Considering ubisoft agrees on this spam fest.

[Rikuto01]

Warlord headbutt is instant out of dash. Can't compare it to the others.

[G0dzBlaze]

ARe you seerious ?

Raider ZA takes half stamina, and is fricking slow. so that means can be parried or dodged.

***Warlord headbutt pushes you away, literally 0 stamina cost***, cannot be parried and on top of that is istant. Im not even calling the others Warlord's advantages over 90% of the classes.

See the differences here ?

Im staring toi think for those of us who don't like free cheap damage/spam stuff, for honor may be just the wrong game. Considering ubisoft agrees on this spam fest.

WARLORD
Headbutt

Stamina cost increased to 15 (from 12).
Dodge window increased by 200ms.
Miss Recovery reduced to 700ms (from 800ms).
Miss Recovery branching into Attack delayed by 200ms

You failed.

[Netcode_err_404]

WARLORD
Headbutt

Stamina cost increased to 15 (from 12).
Dodge window increased by 200ms.
Miss Recovery reduced to 700ms (from 800ms).
Miss Recovery branching into Attack delayed by 200ms

You failed.

That means we won't see a warlord on the next finals.