1. #1

    PK balance (a productive debate)

    to start, this is not a thread for crying and complaining. All I am trying to do in this thread is vent my opinion and start a productive conversation and debate(yes, descending opinions are welcome) regarding the current state of the PK and the upcoming "nerf"

    Firstly, I would like to be clear, I do appreciate the development team looking into the character. However, simply cutting back the damage on PK's dashing heavy-strikes is not going to weaken her on a high level of play. I have personally logged over 250 hours in 4v4 modes and over 75 hours of game play in duel and brawl, I can tell you honestly, it is the PK's obscenely fast light attacks and zone in combination with her ridiculous effective ability to back dash, lighting quick, away from a negative situation that is the problem. The PK has essential no need to block in here current state, the PK is the only characters that can leap into combat and initiate with 12 and 9 frame attacks then jump back without any threat of damage. She is honestly to hard to punish, even while exhausted due to said back dodge and even while being aggressive with super difficult to parry lights.

    now, I think it is important to expand on why I feel less damage on the PK's dash heavy-striking is NOT the answer on a high level. Before this, I would like throw out this idea to the DEVS:
    the majority of players on this game play at an average level or lower level of skill ability. Spending almost one hundred hours in these skill rating groups myself, I can tell you, the dash strikes on any assassin are OP, that is why the majority of your data is telling you the damage is coming from those animations. the majority of your player base is casual players, these players crutch on these moves because other casuals cant block or parry that well yet. In addition, some casuals are too aggressive and will throw out unnecessary heavies that can easily be side step doge attacked. (I have been there).

    back to my point, when players begin to get into the top level of play, (greater that 70% win-rate PvP... do not look at your menu stats I am taking REAL FHtracker PvP ones)

    good PKs wont even bother using the dash strikes. This is because the dash strikes are the only move in the PK kit that is unsafe and constantly punishable, players like me will parry that crap EVERY TIME. In conclusion, a Nerf to dash strikes DOES NOT fix the problem.

    my solution:
    second light in the peacekeeper light chain becomes 15 frames instead of 12.
    second half of PK zone can no longer be canceled.
    PK dodge distance reduced by 5%.
    (all characters) exhausted characters dodge becomes slowed down by 15%, and recover time between dodges is delayed by 10%.
    buff PKs dodge strike damage by up to 50% honestly IDC how much, at-least I can punish this animation, fair risk reward.
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  2. #2
    theres alot of threads going around about the PK chnages..these are one of the very few ive seen that are just way over the top...

    You dont want PK nerfed, you want her obliterated, never to be seen from again...

    Please tell me how a PK stands a chance against anybody with these changes. Shes got one move...Parry+GB...you know just the same thing that every other hero goes for.
    You want to buff the one move that you say is the easiest to defend against and can parry every time. But want everything else to come with a flat out nerf.

    Its a shame ive heard they are considering removing ZA+Cancel. A Damage+Speed Nerf and something done to revenge ZA spam from everyone would been a better change.
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  3. #3
    Burn-The-Sinner's Avatar Banned
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    Delete her with fire!
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  4. #4
    Just make her second attack 15 frames, and make her ZA punishable like the Warden's. Also increase her 2 R1 recovery time
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  5. #5

    allow me to explain....

    Originally Posted by Blasto95 Go to original post
    theres alot of threads going around about the PK chnages..these are one of the very few ive seen that are just way over the top...

    You dont want PK nerfed, you want her obliterated, never to be seen from again...

    Please tell me how a PK stands a chance against anybody with these changes. Shes got one move...Parry+GB...you know just the same thing that every other hero goes for.
    You want to buff the one move that you say is the easiest to defend against and can parry every time. But want everything else to come with a flat out nerf.

    Its a shame ive heard they are considering removing ZA+Cancel. A Damage+Speed Nerf and something done to revenge ZA spam from everyone would been a better change.
    1. she still will have the fast light combo in the game.

    first strike 12 frames, second strike 15 frames. 15 frames is the same as Orochi and Warden top light... let that sink in. 12 frames on her first light is under 400ms. The average reaction time of a male between 14-23 is 450-470ms. the average gamer will still literally have to guess to parry it. Having both at 12 frames is too strong.

    2. She will still have the farthest doge in the game. however, no longer by such a wide margin.

    3. She could potential have the highest damage heavy strikes in the game. Depending on how much they buff the heavy dash-strikes hypothetically.

    4. she maintains all her super powerful bleed effects.

    5. her GB+bleed will be unaffected and remain one of the most powerful guard break combos.

    6. she will still have the fastest zone attack in the the game, one that begins with 9 freaking frames.

    need I go on?
    I didn't realize my Nerf what so harsh... really? 25% decrease to the SECOND swing of the fastest light combo in the game? I am open to letting you PK mains keep the initiating light exactly the same.
    A 5% decrease to the farthest dodge in the game? come on... I even buffed her in other places to compensate. the difference is.... I buffed her in places where the risk reward is equal. the PK back dodge has no risk right now and is super rewarding.
    besides, the exhausted Nerfs applies to everyone... we all should be getting punished if we go into the grey IMO.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by IendZombies Go to original post
    1. she still will have the fast light combo in the game.

    first strike 12 frames, second strike 15 frames. 15 frames is the same as Orochi and Warden top light... let that sink in. 12 frames on her first light is under 400ms. The average reaction time of a male between 14-23 is 450-470ms. the average gamer will still literally have to guess to parry it. Having both at 12 frames is too strong.

    2. She will still have the farthest doge in the game. however, no longer by such a wide margin.

    3. She could potential have the highest damage heavy strikes in the game. Depending on how much they buff the heavy dash-strikes hypothetically.

    4. she maintains all her super power bleed effects.

    5. her GB+bleed will be unaffected and remain one of the most power guard break combos.

    6. she will still have the fastest zone attack in the the game, one that begins with 9 freaking frames.

    need I go on?
    I didn't realize my Nerf what so harsh... really? 25% decrease to the SECOND swing of the fastest light combo in the game? I am open to letting you PK mains keep the initiating light exactly the same.
    A 5% decrease to the farthest dodge in the game? come on... I even buffed her in other places to compensate. the difference is.... I buffed her in places where the risk reward is equal. the PK back dodge has no risk right now and is super rewarding.
    besides, the exhausted Nerfs applies to everyone... we all should be getting punished if we go into the grey IMO.
    Her first attack is 15 frames I believe currently, second is 12
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  7. #7

    I agree

    Originally Posted by SAVAGE_CABBAGE1 Go to original post
    Just make her second attack 15 frames, and make her ZA punishable like the Warden's. Also increase her 2 R1 recovery time
    however, no need to increase recovery time between R1 lights, it breaks the character... she needs to let the lights rip fast, however they should be some what punishable IMO. As of right now, double 12 frame lights is not really punishable, at least with the second becoming 15 frames, more people will have a better chance to parry the PK during this chain and punish.
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  8. #8

    incorrect

    Originally Posted by SAVAGE_CABBAGE1 Go to original post
    Her first attack is 15 frames I believe currently, second is 12
    it has been tested by a fellow on youtube, frame data says both lights in her chain are 12 frames.
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  9. #9
    A bunch of us PK mains have been saying similar, I have no good grasp of the numbers so I have never quantified it and don't know how much difference what you are saying will do so I have no real answer to that but one or more of less damage, more time between chains and less dodge (one or more or some mix of those three) and actually punishable on exhaustion has pretty much been where my thought has been. The only reason I haven't suggested speed decrease myself was because the devs flatout said they didn't want to touch that on the warrior's den. In any case, the first thought I and another had over the nerf was exactly the same, nerfing dodges will only push more use of light attack.
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by IendZombies Go to original post
    however, no need to increase recovery time between R1 lights, it breaks the character... she needs to let the lights rip fast, however they should be some what punishable IMO. As of right now, double 12 frame lights is not really punishable, at least with the second becoming 15 frames, more people will have a better chance to parry the PK during this chain and punish.
    It wouldn't really break the character, it would help counter the R1 spam that everyone hates. It's a chain of 2 R1s not a infinite chain. She can rip out lights faster than conq, who has an infinite chain.
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