1. #21
    TypeTen's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by easy_target77 Go to original post
    Skill is relative to the task at hand. It takes a lot more effort to aim with a controller than with M/KB, I agree, but a person skilled using a controller without aim assist may never achieve the level of precision of M/KB can provide. I played console shooters for a long time, and for fun I tried using a controller on PC. I did get a couple of kills, but got wrecked almost every match. It just can't compete.
    Like you said, it comes down to skill. I've only ever played CoD (PC and PS) with a pad, and get basically the same results everywhere. A loss! lol jk I generally sit around the top of the board, unless I'm on S&D. Yet if you give me a M+KB to play it with, I suck donkey diddly. Vice verse for CS:GO, though. Not only is the pad support already garbo, it just feels bad to play with a pad.

    So it all comes down to individual skill. I'm generally more proficient in every game with a pad because of how I've grown up playing FPS and all other sorts of games with a controller. It's ingrained. I have insanely acute aiming, much the same as people who spend their lives playing M+KB games. It's all relative.

    If someone is willing to out and out say one is better than the other, that's just indicative of their lack of skill with the besmirched option. Simple as, really. And that's not a bad thing, nobody is a maestro with every peripheral. No doubt my weakest peripheral would be the new VR stuff because I've never used it, but that's playing on already developed motor skills based around RL, so it'd probably be easiest to pick up.

    M+KB comes next due to how the controls are easier to focus on; KB takes literally no brains to get to grips with because of how you can rest your hand and auto-pilot after learning a game's individual keys. The mouse takes more practice but is generally still easy enough to get hold of (note I'm not talking about difficulty of mastering a device, here). The main ease of access and learning for M+KB, though, comes from how the movements on your KB hand are severely more mechanical and less intuitive than the right hand's need for precision, so it's easier to differentiate in your head. They're two very different patterns, but they're always the same so it's like training yourself to rub your stomach and pat your head at the same time, but never swap hands. Past that, mastering usage (not becoming pro, but making everything second nature) is a step away, you just have to get a feel for it.

    Meanwhile, pads are massively different, it's two individual sticks that rely on slightly more 3D thought patterns than the M+KB due to how they often result in exactly opposite movements from two halves of your body. So while M+KB is an unending pat+rub motion, the pad can be both patting, both rubbing, quickly swapping hands from rubbing and patting over to the opposite sides of the head, etc. It's more difficult to grasp and then still awkward to master after that, because rather than all buttons except for fire and aim on the one hand, they're spread out everywhere. And this makes jumping from game to game significantly different on console to PC.

    PC has standardised layouts due to necessity; your average mouse only has 3 buttons, after all, and the Keyboard isn't going to go back to being used for aiming any time soon outside of Indie games. Console doesn't. Doom swapped guns on R1. Mass Effect: Andromeda has it on Square (the weapon wheel is on the touch pad, too). CoD and Siege have it on Triangle. That's just swapping weapons in four games. Think of how just one change displaces other buttons and you'll have an idea of how janky it can be to jump from game to game originally. (And yes, I'm serious. If you didn't know, Doom puts the weapon wheel on R1 (and that means tapping R1 swaps weapons, mind you, it's been about a year since I played so it could well be misremembered))


    So while it sounds like you did at least try on PC to play with a pad, you never really practised or put much effort in if it was only for a "couple of kills". That's not a bad thing, why use something that requires you to relearn a game when you could just not? That's basic sense, really.
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  2. #22
    Morfanos's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by TypeTen Go to original post
    Like you said, it comes down to skill. I've only ever played CoD (PC and PS) with a pad, and get basically the same results everywhere. A loss! lol jk I generally sit around the top of the board, unless I'm on S&D. Yet if you give me a M+KB to play it with, I suck donkey diddly. Vice verse for CS:GO, though. Not only is the pad support already garbo, it just feels bad to play with a pad.

    So it all comes down to individual skill. I'm generally more proficient in every game with a pad because of how I've grown up playing FPS and all other sorts of games with a controller. It's ingrained. I have insanely acute aiming, much the same as people who spend their lives playing M+KB games. It's all relative.

    If someone is willing to out and out say one is better than the other, that's just indicative of their lack of skill with the besmirched option. Simple as, really. And that's not a bad thing, nobody is a maestro with every peripheral. No doubt my weakest peripheral would be the new VR stuff because I've never used it, but that's playing on already developed motor skills based around RL, so it'd probably be easiest to pick up.

    M+KB comes next due to how the controls are easier to focus on; KB takes literally no brains to get to grips with because of how you can rest your hand and auto-pilot after learning a game's individual keys. The mouse takes more practice but is generally still easy enough to get hold of (note I'm not talking about difficulty of mastering a device, here). The main ease of access and learning for M+KB, though, comes from how the movements on your KB hand are severely more mechanical and less intuitive than the right hand's need for precision, so it's easier to differentiate in your head. They're two very different patterns, but they're always the same so it's like training yourself to rub your stomach and pat your head at the same time, but never swap hands. Past that, mastering usage (not becoming pro, but making everything second nature) is a step away, you just have to get a feel for it.

    Meanwhile, pads are massively different, it's two individual sticks that rely on slightly more 3D thought patterns than the M+KB due to how they often result in exactly opposite movements from two halves of your body. So while M+KB is an unending pat+rub motion, the pad can be both patting, both rubbing, quickly swapping hands from rubbing and patting over to the opposite sides of the head, etc. It's more difficult to grasp and then still awkward to master after that, because rather than all buttons except for fire and aim on the one hand, they're spread out everywhere. And this makes jumping from game to game significantly different on console to PC.

    PC has standardised layouts due to necessity; your average mouse only has 3 buttons, after all, and the Keyboard isn't going to go back to being used for aiming any time soon outside of Indie games. Console doesn't. Doom swapped guns on R1. Mass Effect: Andromeda has it on Square (the weapon wheel is on the touch pad, too). CoD and Siege have it on Triangle. That's just swapping weapons in four games. Think of how just one change displaces other buttons and you'll have an idea of how janky it can be to jump from game to game originally. (And yes, I'm serious. If you didn't know, Doom puts the weapon wheel on R1 (and that means tapping R1 swaps weapons, mind you, it's been about a year since I played so it could well be misremembered))


    So while it sounds like you did at least try on PC to play with a pad, you never really practised or put much effort in if it was only for a "couple of kills". That's not a bad thing, why use something that requires you to relearn a game when you could just not? That's basic sense, really.
    I've been gaming for a very long time(30+ years), using all type of controls. I can say without a doubt that for shooters, a mouse and keyboard will always be better. Just like a controller is way better for platformers, driving games or fighting games.

    This in no way mean you can't be an amazing player with a controller in a FPS. I've seen amazing players on console. It just means that some type of controls are better suited for some games than other types.

    Don't believe me? A few years back, MS was working on cross platform for shooters (PC and 360, which make sense since they also make windows) gaming and they ended up scrapping the project because it just wasn't fair.

    Just a few seconds on google should be enough for you to find articles about that.

    Or look at Blizzard and Overwatch. The game is balanced differently on console than on PC because of the difference in accuracy and speed you have between the twos.
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  3. #23
    Originally Posted by sheppards1337 Go to original post
    Nahhh thats not true i play this game since season one end i have been diamond evry season except for season 1. We play against diamond evryday every match around the 90% of the opponents just use a controller like a normal console player. From some people i know they use m/k because they talk about it by their selfs. You have other people thinking about buying because (why not?) they say. However when you play the esl on ps4 then you will notice a difference between people playing m/k or a controller.
    Buth still i really dont think there are much m/k players on ps4. Is it fair ofcourse not! Buth what can ubi do about this practicly nothing. It needs to come from sony themselfs or xbox.
    I'have been diamond too and I'm telling you that the accuracy is more easy to control with a M&K. I know a lot of good players who use a controller, good for them. You use a controller and I congratulate you for that. That said, most players wouldn't have a chance against a good player using a M&K. You can aiming easier, dropshoting easier, moving easier, everything is more accurate. And there are A LOT of things that Ubisoft could do about this, A LOT.
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  4. #24
    danh.'s Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by Morfanos Go to original post
    I've been gaming for a very long time(30+ years), using all type of controls. I can say without a doubt that for shooters, a mouse and keyboard will always be better. Just like a controller is way better for platformers, driving games or fighting games.

    This in no way mean you can't be an amazing player with a controller in a FPS. I've seen amazing players on console. It just means that some type of controls are better suited for some games than other types.

    Don't believe me? A few years back, MS was working on cross platform for shooters (PC and 360, which make sense since they also make windows) gaming and they ended up scrapping the project because it just wasn't fair.

    Just a few seconds on google should be enough for you to find articles about that.

    Or look at Blizzard and Overwatch. The game is balanced differently on console than on PC because of the difference in accuracy and speed you have between the twos.
    Yep can confirm this. I have been playing Quake competitive since the first Quake. Played Quake 4 semi-professional on xbox and played against mid tier players on PC with a controller.
    You don't stand a chance against high tier/skilled players. The difference is very well noticable.
    Was good at Quake movement with a controller but when it comes down to aim battles, high skilled players will outaim you 99% of the time.
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  5. #25
    I'm playing on ultra settings with 144 fps and <50 ping on EU, so brobably I'll get ban too?

    This post is a joke ... ultra facepalm!
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  6. #26
    Originally Posted by xD4Damager Go to original post
    I'm playing on ultra settings with 144 fps and <50 ping on EU, so brobably I'll get ban too?

    This post is a joke ... ultra facepalm!
    This post is not a joke. Putting an example about a PC case on a post about consoles is.
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  7. #27
    TypeTen's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by Morfanos Go to original post
    I've been gaming for a very long time(30+ years), using all type of controls. I can say without a doubt that for shooters, a mouse and keyboard will always be better. Just like a controller is way better for platformers, driving games or fighting games.

    This in no way mean you can't be an amazing player with a controller in a FPS. I've seen amazing players on console. It just means that some type of controls are better suited for some games than other types.

    Don't believe me? A few years back, MS was working on cross platform for shooters (PC and 360, which make sense since they also make windows) gaming and they ended up scrapping the project because it just wasn't fair.

    Just a few seconds on google should be enough for you to find articles about that.

    Or look at Blizzard and Overwatch. The game is balanced differently on console than on PC because of the difference in accuracy and speed you have between the twos.
    I see where everyone is coming from here, and facts are undeniable. My case was more so if you're better on a certain input type over another, you might as well stick to your guns; it's your choice entirely how to play a game, and if you can do it well enough and enjoy it the way you are, it's pointless to jump ship. Each person is different, too. The thing with bringing test cases into this is that you need massive amounts of different test cases each with massive amounts of testers (I'd love to call them testees here XD) in them for them to be truly conclusive.

    This isn't me arguing the toss, more so hoping to try to subvert any damage words such as "M+KB is just BETTER for FPSes, fact, here's proof: <factoid link>" could have on people reading this conversation. A lot of people are easily swayed, so if we have any more people getting the idea that M+KB is better for them than controller, it's going to have the opposite effect than getting them to stop using the peripherals on console. Which, I need not remind you, is sort of the point of this thread.


    Also, bringing Overwatch into this is pointless, because R6 itself is balanced differently betwixt console and PC, too (I also just really don't like Overwatch, so any chance to not have it in a conversation is good). What this means is that if it's balanced differently to have less sway so that controller users, who innately have a harder time anyway, get a slight buff to all guns, but then use M+KB, it's the same as if on PC half of the enemy team had 50% better everything than you. Can you see where I'm coming from here? Talking up M+KB praises in a thread about getting them deactivated in a game that's been balanced in a way that makes M+KB users even stronger on console than on PC is going to help none of us.
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  8. #28
    So, UBI? What is the deal? Anyone care to comment one way or another? UBI? UBI?...........UBI?
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  9. #29
    easy_target77's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Braindead_Bill Go to original post
    No one likes the idea of somebody else being able to "pay to win", but m/kb is just one of many ways to get an advantage over the bare-bones consoler. There are all sorts of elite controllers, higher-def monitors, $500 headsets, faster internet connections (or slower)... Now, some of these are bigger advantages than others, but the point is people will always be able to shell out cash for an advantage over others. In case you haven't noticed, that's kind of how human society works.
    This, folks, is textbook example of a false equivalence. Please take note.

    I will use another argument that is usually thrown out in the internet when discussions about unfair advantage go: Are PEDs ok or not if they are not allowed by the rules of the sport in question? I
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  10. #30
    Disgusted by this. I play f1 with a pad and there are a lot of wheels users out there, which is like a mouse and keyboard on this game. However, it is very fair because wheel and pads have trade offs. Like on the wheel, you have less traction but more steering than the pad, whilst on the pad, it is vice versa. In my OPINION AND TO BALANCE THIS STUPIDITY, there must be a trade off if players use mouse and keyboard on console to balance it out. Why should I be better by spending more money?
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