What Happens if You Try to Defeat UNIDAD Forces... by Force. | Forums

[Dyslexic-Snail]

Unidad are a Military Force. Would you expect an Army of soldiers to run away after 5 waves of attacks?

[Dyslexic-Snail]

Whole point of Unidad is to force you into retreating and stealth. You should not be able to win battle against Unidad.

There is, however, a problem with Unidad implementation. Their bases are just like normal SB camps, ensure alarms are destroyed before engaging, where even if alerted you can clear it by brute force. On the other hand, patrols and patrol alert system is just broken. Alert level raises fast and reinforcements are arriving way too fast. There should be a limit of how many reinforcements can come in certain time frame. Alert level should not be increased by simply killing Unidad unit but for such unit being engaged in combat for certain amount of time. This would allow you to focus fire specific enemies to prevent further reinforcements rather than ignore them and kill SB or run away.

To be fair, you have just flown into the Unidad's territory so they will have all the back up and at what speed they want it...I see it as about right.

[Kadeim]

A friend and I have purposely gone to UNIDAD bases to claim the base as ours. We have done it in different levels of difficulty, and yes it can last a very long time in the higher level, but...

We did find that eventually they will give up on the base and let us keep it. We actually had to try to entice them into coming after us, yet once they decided that they didn't want to come into the base to try and remove us, they would be very hesitant to come back into the base. They would continue to fly copters around, and use guns and missiles, but even they would keep their distance; unlike how close they would come to us in the early portion of the fight.

We have enjoyed ourselves in just doing this, as the they are persistent where the cartel are quick to eliminate and quicker to cease fighting.

[DanHibikiFanXM]

Unidad are a Military Force. Would you expect an Army of soldiers to run away after 5 waves of attacks?

If those five waves produced a 100% casualty rate along with catastrophic destruction of millions of dollars worth of vehicles and helicopters...yes. They might not run away but they for sure wouldn't keep sending irreplaceable men and material into a buzz saw.

More likely realistic scenario: UNIDAD would withdraw and attempt to set up a perimeter. Once established and with adequate reinforcements, they would level the area with mortars/artillery/missles - then clear whatever is left.

That lull in the fighting while attempting to establish a perimeter with whatever is left of their QRF would probably be the Ghosts' moment to try and break out and break contact.

Breaking contact is ABSOLUTELY an option for UNIDAD if they were getting their nuts kicked in - regardless of how big and bad you are if someone is wrecking you you don't stay and take it. That's just stupid.

[CanadianQuebec]

Unidad are a Military Force. Would you expect an Army of soldiers to run away after 5 waves of attacks?

You might not know about it, but 5 waves of attacks is actually a lot in terms of actual military activities.
Realistically speaking, any commander stop sending "waves" and simply change tactics after 3 waves.

• First wave is a scouting party to assess the situation if the communication with the present forces has stopped. It's usually 1 chopper or armored vehicle with, at most, a dozen men and 1 scout (sniper) party covering them from afar.
If the first wave also break contact without any information, it usually goes to the 3rd wave immediately as the zone is now considered highly hostile.
• Second wave is the force based on the info given by the first wave. In this case, if the enemies have been able to identify the 4 Ghosts, they would send around 4 to 5 men per Ghost identified. That's the rule of 4 where any force with 4x the strength of each individual assets of the enemy is supposed to have the highest chance of winning. It's also the safest bet in case that some hostile forces weren't mentioned by the 1st wave.
• Third wave is where usually the crap hit the fan. Armored vehicles and Air forces hit the zone and try to take it by brute force.

If the 3rd wave doesn't work, usually, they don't send much new ground force (soldier life) into the area and will keep bombarding it with mortar & air raid.
This bombardment can last up for quite a while (days or even weeks). Mortar's shells are cheap comparing to soldiers' life after all.

After, it's a restart of the previous situation with a new scout wave.

Usually, if the second set of 3 different waves results in the same way as the first, the area is usually abandoned and considered as taken by an hostile force.
Then, at best, they would set a long range scouting (sniper) party of 1 or 2 duos to keep the HQ informed of the situation on site. That's if they don't have satellite images all the way around.

The thing here in the game that makes it seems wrong is how the Waves are so short lived. Normally, waves would take at least 1 day between each (1 hours real-time)... Maybe 12 hours (30 Min) if the Ghost are all spotted. The game usually send a new waves every 5 min real-time (2 hours in-game) at most. That's because they haven't made the game in a way that reflect the traveling distance of the Unidad forces. (I know they don't make the forces travel all the way from another base and only makes them appears close to the Ghosts. Still, they could make things last a bit longer between ground wave to reflect the traveling limitations.)

Now, since the game was made more like a chimera of a military game with arcades' based sets of rules, it's kinda not possible to have that kind of military behavior. After all, the Unidad's alert level is something linked to if or not the Ghosts are spotted. That's without considering the issues of having the AIs with Red Fish Memory syndromes. (It's a way of saying they are quite forgetful in a matter of less than a minute.) The game didn't involve any kind of adaptation from Unidad to the Ghosts whenever they are detected and U-HQ is informed of the situation. By the 6th or 7th time Unidad confront the Ghosts, you don't feel like it's different from the 1st and 2nd time. That's the previously mentioned Arcades' based set of rules.

Let's explain this further...

To me, the Unidad force isn't anything close to any real military forces. The habit does not make the monk is the best way I could describe it. At best, I would consider them like a unorthodox mercenary force. Everything points toward that kind of thing:
• They lack any real military involvement within the coutnry all the way during the game.
The country slowly get into a bad situation and the most you see is the people getting harassed by them. You don't feel their presence at all in the country. It's as if they don't care about the said country. There's not a single "real" national army in the World that act like that... Even the worse armies do have a minimum of a national pride and act upon it. (Note that some army have more pride toward their superior than the nation, but then you got to consider their view as their superior being the country.) In this, Unidad seems like a lazy bunch of people who just want their paychecks.
• They don't act like real tactical military units.
Note that I'm not writing about their animations here, but about their behavior and patterns. They feel like a bunch of armored guys who have gets orders to kill the enemy and the one who ever get a kill gets a reward and the other ones gets no pay. Each works in a group, yet none actually help the said group. Kinda like a "Closer we're stronger" mixed with "Each for their own". This is the usual pattern of a mercenary who's following any order given, but only act on his/her own benefits when doing the action. This is easily seen when they get fired at. As soon as they are fired at, they break formation and start doing ants' jobs (spread and move around separately).
• They don't have much of any emotional reaction
They don't fear much (except being killed) and don't seem to react much (except for finding the enemy) whenever their comrades are killed right next to them. It's as if it's the first time they worked together and as long as they survive, nothing phase them.
• The HQ don't care about loses
A point mentioned by many already... The Unidad forces are like sacrificial pawns being send into a grinder. You don't feel like the HQ might devise a change of pace or change their tactic based on the situation... They act like a money shredder : "Hey, our last force on the ground were decimated... Let's send some bigger (more costy) forces randomly!"

With the new Fallen Ghost DLC, the concept of Unidad being made as a mercenary force is pushed even further.

[Confused_Hippie]

yeah if you hold up in a Unidad base in a air traffic control tower the helicopters can't touch you, I played for maybe 3 hours real time and the game pretty much crashed near the end the undid stopped showing up the helicopters stopped, the base looked like a aircraft grave yard. friends couldn't join after the 2 hour mark to much lag then they'd be booted, all the enemies in the WORLD just disappeared. i could roam everywhere with out seeing anyone undid, Santa blanca, rebels. I was in the Media Luna area at the FOB Brute. in any one care to try it out. also enjoyed popping the apache (cobra) pilot or gunner one of them would cause the helicopter to start spinning like it was going to crash but instead take off and go and go and go even out of the map bonds just spinning and going up in black smoke

[shobhit7777777]

If those five waves produced a 100% casualty rate along with catastrophic destruction of millions of dollars worth of vehicles and helicopters...yes. They might not run away but they for sure wouldn't keep sending irreplaceable men and material into a buzz saw.

More likely realistic scenario: UNIDAD would withdraw and attempt to set up a perimeter. Once established and with adequate reinforcements, they would level the area with mortars/artillery/missles - then clear whatever is left.

That lull in the fighting while attempting to establish a perimeter with whatever is left of their QRF would probably be the Ghosts' moment to try and break out and break contact.

Breaking contact is ABSOLUTELY an option for UNIDAD if they were getting their nuts kicked in - regardless of how big and bad you are if someone is wrecking you you don't stay and take it. That's just stupid.

+1

UNIDAD SHOULD make you go "Oh ****" and make you WANT to break contact and melt away into the darkness. But the way it's implemented, it leaves a lot to be desired.
Insta spawn helis and APCs sap the joy out of it. UNIDAD often cheats and that makes it quite annoying.

Helis should not spawn in so quickly and infinitely and the way they engage you needs to be tweaked....they have machine guns, rockets and on-board sharpshooters...they should sweep in for gun runs or for stand off attacks. Currently they are easy targets and are downed real easy.

I'd suggest limited number of helos but when they do show up they should be a formidable force.

And as Dan suggested...UNIDAD should call in arty strikes...basically huge *** mortars. After you've smoked the second/third wave....they should call in helis and artillery.

[AI BLUEFOX]

Helis should not spawn in so quickly and infinitely and the way they engage you needs to be tweaked....they have machine guns, rockets and on-board sharpshooters...they should sweep in for gun runs or for stand off attacks. Currently they are easy targets and are downed real easy.

You should check out the Unidad forums; apparently there is a lot of complaining about the controls.

Good suggestion, Dan. Unidad should break contact at some point if they are being wasted and that should be your cue to get the hell and run for it out before heavy ordnance is deployed.

[DanHibikiFanXM]

I just have a problem with UNIDAD in general - they are cartoonish and they just don't behave as an actual military force would. They are essentially the Los Santos PD from GTA5 - suicidal maniacs that absolutely have no regard for the loss of men, material, or civilians.

Flat out, how quickly and ferociously they receive backup is 100% unrealistic. There is no way on Earth that there are THAT MANY soldiers, fully decked out in battle rattle and ready for combat, that can just appear out of nowhere. Where did these guys come from realistically (ignore the fact the game just spawns them in)? Why also are the QRF elements coming in piecemeal one vic at a time? Perhaps there are just a lot of roaming UNIDAD elements out in the wild that are responding to a distress call, but more likely there is a platoon at some FOB or COP on standby as QRF waiting for a call.

The call comes, this platoon has to quickly gather everyone, gear up, load up, and finally roll out. It shouldn't take long as the trucks in the convoy would already be ready to go. Regardless, it would realistically take a while before they reach their comrades but let's say in in-game terms...maybe between 2-3 minutes? Almost like a countdown timer? It would be somewhat similar to how reinforcements behave in Far Cry where you hear the reinforcements talking over the radio giving updates about how far away they are - acting as a cue for the player to GTFO and break contact. When they roll in, they roll in in force. AT LEAST four vehicles (minimum for a convoy in order to provide 360 security on the road) pull up near the engagement area. The vehicles hang back providing overwatch/suppression with their guns while the dismounts recon/assault Ghost positions. Realistically also they'd be fighting as a coordinated force using fire and maneuver tactics rather than the random assault of suicidal automatons that currently happens. This element starts to get it's proverbial backside kicked, they pull back to establish a perimeter and either call in air support or deploy their own 60mm mortar to light up the last known Ghost positions.

Something like that.

[AI BLUEFOX]

The response should definitely be better organised!!

This is where there could be a bit of the systemic world thing happening. The trouble is none of us would know, because we only see our own world and running separate campaigns would take an age of testing. Do we all see a different Unidad, that behave differently due to how we have conducted the campaign? I don't think so and the 4 alert states are too short; they should last days.