Something I've seen several times is the idea that the Conqueror’s weak damage is warranted because of their strong defense. The more I think about this idea, the more I realize it shouldn't be the case.
Imagine that you have a character whose light and heavy attacks all hit hard, but still has a solid defense. What kind of drawbacks could be given to such a character?
> That character's attacks could be slower, and therefore be easier to be blocked/parried (highly punishable)
> That character could suffer from stamina issues / have to deal with stamina management
> That character could be unable to feint their attacks (or at least not do so normally)
> That character's moveset could be fairly limited/simple
> That character's most powerful attack(s) could take some time to charge up
> One or more of that character's attacks could reveal a temporary weakness in their strong defense
The point is, a character that hits hard AND has a good defense can still have a large number of weaknesses.
Also, as those familiar with the Conqueror may have noticed, all of the weaknesses listed above are weaknesses the Conqueror already has. The only major difference is that he can hardly be considered a 'heavy hitter’.
Why? Why does Conqueror deal such low damage? There’s no reason a character can't excel in both damage and defense. In fact, the Conqueror is even advertised as such (“Heavy Hitter, Strong Defense”). So why doesn't he hit anywhere near as hard as advertised?
This inconsistency leads to Risk/Reward ratios on the Conqueror that are totally out of whack:
- Raw heavy attacks AND light attacks are easily parried and punished. Since they deal low damage, using these attacks is very risky for the little reward they offer
- Shield Bash > Light and the Shield Bash > Heavy loop are incredibly safe, so there's little risk to the reward for these moves
- Charged Heavy deals a lot of damage (has a high amount of reward), but you can see it coming and easily block/parry it, if you didn't already do an untechable GB on the Conqueror while they were charging (high risk).
A Conqueror's charged heavy attack is not the best move in the world, but it's seemingly his only move where the Risk/Reward ratio seems acceptable (high risk to match high reward). His normal moves have a terrible Risk/Reward ratios while his attacks combined with Shield Bash have terrific ones.
In the end, this is why you see Shield Bash spam from Conquerors. Almost all of their other moves are high risk, and usually for terrible reward.
I think deep down, a lot of Conqueror players realize this. They know that if/when Shield Bash gets nerfed, they'll lose one of their only low-risk ways to be aggressive. Their only low-risk way of getting damage afterwards will be to simply turtle up and block/parry for untechable guard breaks into heavy attacks.
I don't want to play as a one-trick pony or a turtle. I don't want to play against one-trick ponies or turtles either. So, how can we do right by the Conqueror?
Well, the easy answer is ‘rebalance the Risk/Reward ratio on all the Conqueror's moves’ so that they all have a place and they're all worth using. Unfortunately, that's much easier said than done, as there are MANY different ways to alter attacks to meet that goal (attack speed, damage, recovery time, stamina costs, etc.).
My goal of this post is not to pick out specific solutions to this problem. My goal is simply to make people aware of something important:
The Conqueror needs changes to more than just his Shield Bash - or, in other words, if/when a change is made to Shield Bash, it shouldn't be the only change made to the Conqueror.
If you *just* nerf his Shield Bash, you're making the Conqueror pitifully weak or forcing them to turtle. I don't want to play as or against that kind of Conqueror. I'm not sure if anyone does.
Agree? Disagree? Have some potential solutions for correcting the risk/reward ratio on the Conqueror's moves? Post below, and let's start a discussion on what can be done to bring the Conqueror to a much better state (and what that better state should be).
I think the issues with Conqueror are deeper than raw damage output. As of now, the most viable/easiest way to play him is shieldbash spam.
I've had moderate luck with his infinite chains lights, but I don't do it often because it feels cheesy. However beyond that, his kit leaves a lot to be desired. His chains are mediocre at best, with his chargeup being almost useless if you aren't at range due to guaranteed GB. His soft feint all guard has the same issue as chargeup.
This leaves us, with, well... Shield bash spam. He needs at least a mild rework, as it stands he's boring to fight, boring to play, yet so damn effective, in a very boring way. It's mind numbing.
It actually does 46 damage when fully charged.Originally Posted by Nareya Go to original post
Raider top heavy does 45.
Nobushi top heavy does 38, 45.6 on a bleeding target
PK guard break deals 41
Zerker overhead deals 55
Orochi overhead does 35
Warlord side heavy does 35
etc.
The point is its damage is actually not particularly high considering its hugely telegraphed nature and riskiness when used in guard break range.
To the OP: Good post, risk/reward ratios are exactly what's so ****ed up about the game right now.
Until the soft feint, gb feint, and unlock exploits are fixed, conqueror needs to be left in a hole and forgotten. They actually kill any potentially contest of skill. I'd queue up for a duel and I see a conqueror and immediately know, even I win the next 10-15min are not going to be any fun whatsoever. Unless ubisoft is gonna fix the flickering and all the other nonsense, it's better for the game that the defense characters get benched for awhile.
Sorry, I do not know too much English, but I will try to explain what I think are the conqueror's faults.
As explained by the creator of the post, the conqueror has certain weaknesses, can not fade attacks, reduced and predictable combos, very slow attacks, especially fast attacks, etc ....
But the truth is that they are not their only weaknesses.
When we talk about the conqueror, we are talking about a class that has the worst parrys of the game, since it can not later cast a heavy attack, a break guard or a light attack,
So we add a great weakness to the rest of the champions that most of them execute after a heavy or a break guard with heavy.
We also talk about a champion who has some painful misses, the shortest of the game (no possibility of cutting break guards), you can not do side jump, only jump back as opposed to half the champions,
After breaking the guard can block your heavy attack (it is the only class that can not give a heavy blow after a break guard or in case of giving it can block it most of times.
If you have loading the flail you will eat the unstoppable attacks without possibility of being able to do parry which exposes you very much in front of this type of champions that can abuse the unstoppable attacks (shugoki, raider, kensei, etc ...)
All that linked to their displacements are worth, we have the warlord that does the same as the conqueror but with more damage, better displacements, being able to die, with better dodging, attacks faster and more difficult, faster head blows, not really I see reasons why the conqueror can live up to beasts like the guardian or the warlord to this day, and it is no longer necessary or that they are up to par, but if you can cut off the shoulder blow with the guardian to To give a break guard it might be well if the conqueror could do the same thing, or at least the blow of a shield could do damage, that if they would give you in real life a blow with a shield would do you enough damage to be frank.
It seems to me absurd that champions like the berserker have added damage in the break guard (without attacking or anything) and then the conqueror does not hurt when he breaks guard when the berserker to break guard only deflects the axes and the conqueror strikes with him Shield in the face of the enemy ....
In short I think that they have to give more tools to the conquistadors, that he has eaten a few nerfeos that he deserved but they have not given him anything in return to balance it and when nerfeas the only good tool of a champion you get what is happening to him The conqueror, from being the strongest champions to being among the weakest in just 1 patch.
In due time people will soon understand just like the lawbringer, once they see said "data" on a character being straight *** they get a monster buff. I can only hope that the conq will be the next runner up to this said "data" or some dev eventually saying the conqueror is my favorite class by some miracle.
I really like how dead-on you were.Originally Posted by djcastem Go to original post
But they didnt give LB a "monster" buff, it is a good buff but nowhere near enough. All that they gave him is more power in team modes, which he's already had. In duel, especially on high levels, he only gets a bit better.Originally Posted by Saint Santana Go to original post