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  1. #1

    A Case for Conq.

    Hello. I'm here to try and make a case for why a shieldbash nerf with no other changes would be the end of the conq in any capacity to actually be useable.

    You see, the Conq is build off his shieldcharges. Unlike Warden, or Lawbringer, conq is only built off his sheldbashes. While he has other componants, like his guardbreak after blocking heavy attacks, his main means of pressure and damage is his shieldbash.

    Now, yes, I realize conq's charge is annoying if he's got you in a corner. Yes, I realize that being told to git gud and dodge the charge is a little much. But let's not forget in exchange for this chain, Conq gives up much.

    A: His chains are extremely limited and his attacks are incredibly slow. It's fairly easy for Conq to get parried.

    B. His ability to actually engage is absolute crap, given he needs to either shieldbash into lights or wait for a opportunity, and both of those can be punished.

    C. He has the lowest heavy attack damage in the game to compensate for his heavy-attack based nature. In order to get a opponant down from the range at which most characters can be oneshotted (after minor health regen) the Conq needs two, or even three heavies to even get an execute.

    D. His Stamina consumption is through the roof. Even if he is the most combat geared Conq on earth, and he has you up against the wall, he cant do it for very long. Two, maybe three rotations, and he threatens to throw himself into exaustion.

    E. Conq's counters are played frequently. Anyone who gets through his block stance can screw him on the regular. Warden, is a great example if they can get him pressured. Nobushi is another. PK to an extent, and Warlord, a good warlord, is the bane of Conq's existance.

    F: A defensive opponant can screw Conq bad. I once met a Kensei that was good at dodging, and extremely defensive. He screwed me. I couldn't initiate and he was good at punishing, I lost so badly, that I had to stop playing for an hour. Conq is -very- bad against overly defensive opponants.

    The point I attempt to make, is this hero is allready a B list pick because of these signifigant issues. People want to yell for his nerf because they hate geting pinned in a corner, just like people wanna call for Wardens nerf for the shoulderbash.

    So, if anything, what could be done? And should it?

    Simply put, you have two options to both limit the shieldspam while keeping Conq viable.

    Option A: Up his damage on heavies, and let his shieldbash cost more stamina. The problem with nerfing one without raising the other, is then you basicly screw his ability to actually damage even more, and that's simply gonna put him where Raider is now.

    Option B: Replace his ability to charge attacks, with something that will give him an offensive option. I'm not in favor of this, but generally speaking the Conq's ability to charge attacks is near useless as it leaves you open for a guardbreak immediately and is therefore never used. Replacing this with something, or making it more desireable to use by buffing it in some way, would encourage Conq's to use it, giving them something else to do from neutral. Perhaps speed it up, to break through those pesky defense matchups? IDK. Suggest something.

    Option C, or the nuclear option: Rework him entirely. If you cannot justify leting him keep his shieldbash, litterally rework the character alltogether. Because as it stands, Shieldbash is what the conq does.

    In closing: The reason the shieldbash needs to remain how it is, is because it is allready punishable, and because it is simply what the conq does. You wanna change it? You rework him from the ground up, because he is simply not built in such a way, that will allow him to lose his one pressure tool, and survive.
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  2. #2
    TCTF_SWAT's Avatar Senior Member
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    I don't liek fighting conqs as a LB. The only thing I can do is shove. I beat him in teh stamina drain department. But that's it. I can't do mix-ups with my heavies. And my lights excluding top is slow for a parry. so....I can't do much.
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  3. #3
    My Conqueror Comrade, we don't have to justify anything or give compromises to the chumps on these forums.
    Just say No! on any shield bash nerfs, period. They're only going to want more and more if we budge now.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by DukeInstinct Go to original post
    My Conqueror Comrade, we don't have to justify anything or give compromises to the chumps on these forums.
    Just say No! on any shield bash nerfs, period. They're only going to want more and more if we budge now.
    The class is geting nerfed, it's just a question of how much. Personally, I'd like for the nerf to come in the form of more options. We can sate the concerns of the playerbase and improve Conq at the same time, and the charge attack is a prime candidate for it.
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  5. #5
    As you said nerfing the Conq will break him, because his shieldbash is one of his few offensive options. But the nerf will come, it was said in the warriors den.

    The Conq at the current state is so week and slow that I stopped playing him (played him since the open beta as my main, rep8 I wasted my time). In my opinion there will be never any kind of improvement because the devs seam to do not care or do not like the Conq. In the warriors den this one guy said: “… I like the Lawbrinnger … so we are now buffing the Lawbrinnger.” So unless one of the devs likes the Conq there will no improvement. I file like the devs never tested or played the Conq.

    But I do not understand this, the problems are so easy to see. With shieldbash is nothing wrong, you just have to learn avoiding it. The Conqs attacks are so slow and week that they are almost useless. The Conq went throw alpha and beta of the game, why did the devs never recognize his problems, because they do not care.
    Yesterday I tried the warden. Everything was so easy with the warden in compare to the Conq.

    In for honor there is no honor and no balance, there are only devs which are completely do not care about any problem. The community had to force them to hear us but they are still not willing to do anything.
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  6. #6
    Specialkha's Avatar Banned
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    I would not mind if they break the conq. It is so boring to play against. And he is not week, he is amongst the top 3 class, thx to defensive meta.
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  7. #7
    Aarpian's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by DukeInstinct Go to original post
    My Conqueror Comrade, we don't have to justify anything or give compromises to the chumps on these forums.
    Just say No! on any shield bash nerfs, period. They're only going to want more and more if we budge now.
    Bugger off, I want shield bash nerfs! This braindead 1-dimensional gameplay is incredibly boring. The flail+shield combination could be hugely unique and present fun an interesting mechanics due to the nature of both weapons (for example taking the momentum of the flail into account, allowing quick soft-feints but only into specific directions and limiting combo chain directions, or fixing the heavy riposte to not suck balls).

    It should be situationally useful, not universally. Make no mistake shield bash needs nerfing but he will become garbage if he doesn't get buffs in other areas to compensate (especially once they fix charged heavy indicator glitch)
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Aarpian Go to original post
    Bugger off, I want shield bash nerfs! This braindead 1-dimensional gameplay is incredibly boring. The flail+shield combination could be hugely unique and present fun an interesting mechanics due to the nature of both weapons (for example taking the momentum of the flail into account, allowing quick soft-feints but only into specific directions and limiting combo chain directions, or fixing the heavy riposte to not suck balls).

    It should be situationally useful, not universally. Make no mistake shield bash needs nerfing but he will become garbage if he doesn't get buffs in other areas to compensate (especially once they fix charged heavy indicator glitch)
    If the shieldbash is geting nerfed he's going to need signifigant buffs to other area's. The problem is, with his kit so limited, I dont know how you would do that.

    As I said, the shieldbash is allready punishable by anyone with half a brain and his attacks are parriable. You made a couple of good suggestions, but given the long list of crap Conq sacrifices in order to be able to do that shieldbash combo, and the fact I rarely get anyone with a braincell up against the wall for more than to strikes? No, the shieldbash does not need nerfed.

    I honestly think a full rework with a new moveset might be the answer.
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  9. #9
    Absolutely on the point ! I agree 100 % =)
    I hop they see this and the other posts from our Conquerorbrothers out there !
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  10. #10
    Capoupacap's Avatar Senior Member
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    As conqueror's we stand !!!!

    The conqueror actually need other opening option than a simple shield bash, the total defense is a ridiculous stuff....Slow and too expensive in stamina for the feint

    1) a block should not open to a guard break but to a very fast counterattack: the heavy reply timing is a wonderfull mechanism but I would like a very fast light with the bottom of the weapon (a bit like a fist hit)...with just a stunt, no damage !!! The heavy counterattack is nice against heavy and to parry but the light counter would be a nice reply to assassin amassment !!!!

    2) For the shield bash I would say that it should be a three step combo: (dodge ) - shield bash (that can be canceled) to : guarantied light - very quick heavy but expensive in stamina - guard break.

    3) the light attack should be quicker (because they don't make any damage) and the third heavy should give a feint opportunity to: guard break or shield bash

    4) the total defense should be a good help against light attack combo and trigger an unblocable if hitted. Something that would put opponent on the ground.
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