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  1. #1
    BananaBlighter's Avatar Senior Member
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    I don't think these were the right PK nerfs...

    I'm a PK main and I think that right now she's a bit too strong. However after watching the livestream I was quite disappointed with the changes they announced. I think that the light attacks spam was the main problem, and was hoping Ubi would address that so people would stop hating on PKs. It's really annoying for people like me who refuse to use lights (even just a few) because of how they are viewed. I don't want to feel like I'm restricting myself.

    First let me say that I am happy about the zone attack nerf. The fix on the indicator will hopefully make it less annoying to block, because before it was a bit ridiculous how easy it was to get a hit with it. Also treating it like a light attack when blocked was the perfect change to make it more punishable and less safe.

    The increase on the deflect damage will hopefully make it more useful, as right now it's rather high risk and kinda low reward. Contrary to what many say, deflect can be very useful in certain situations, more so than parrying. I mostly use it when fighting long range characters like the Nobushi (her lights are also pretty slow and hence easy to deflect) because when I parry her I never get the GB. I also find it easier to deflect right after cancelling a heavy (on controller) because of the dodge button's proximity. When fighting Valkyries (the class I have the most trouble with), I try to bait them by feinting. Problem is that, unlike the assassins, her dash attacks are so fast that I never parry or even block them in time after the feint. What does sometimes work though is a quick deflect.

    However I am rather disturbed that they chose to nerf the dash attacks by increasing block recovery time and decreasing damage. From watching tournaments and skilled players on YT/Twitch, it seems at high level this move is rarely used because it is already too risky and easy to avoid/block/parry. If so much damage really is coming from these attacks then I doubt their data is coming from high end play (as it should IMO). All the change is gonna do is encourage light spam even more, which I think is the real problem with the PK.

    Honestly it's disgusting watching how some PKs play, using nothing but light attacks to overwhelm. This is what they should have focused on instead. I'm not exactly sure how to nerf this, but I have some suggestions:
    • Slow it down ever so slightly on consoles. I think that most of the hate for her light spam is coming from consoles because lower fps and increased latency mean faster characters have a huge advantage.
    • Reduce the damage. Just slightly. Right now its low risk high reward. Make it low risk low reward. After all, if you just watch the animations it doesn't look like those weak slashes would do much damage anyway; there's no power going into them whatsoever.
    • Increase recovery time if the second light gets blocked - maybe even make it so that you can guarantee an GB. Similar to the zone attack nerf, this would make it much more risky and less safe.
    • Add some sort of extra delay if the PK decides to cut out of the light light heavy chain and go for a third light instead. This would give people getting overwhelmed by her spam a bit of a breather to pull themselves together. With some practice, the first light isn't that hard to block, especially when you are prepared.

    I don't think all of these changes would be necessary to discourage the light spam; in fact all 4 would be a bit too much. I would mostly like to see the last two, so that spamming become less safe rather than less rewarding.

    As an AC fan, I will always be in love with the PK. When the game was first announced and the only known heroes were the Warden, Warlord (iirc) and Orochi (or Oni as he was known at the time), Ubi had some images on their website with concept art showing the silhouettes of all the other heroes. The moment I saw that one of them appeared to be wearing a hood and dual wielding swords, I knew they would be my main. I wouldn't mind it if Ubi made her underpowered (in the right ways) so people can stop whining and i can feel a sense of achievement whenever I make that killing blow.

    I was very pleased with everything else that was said in the stream.
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  2. #2
    Gray360uk and I have been saying this since Thursday, pretty much all of it. And yes like you I hesitate to use lights and I refuse to spam them, I pretty much base my game around bleed, if anything with deflect the peacekeeper has been buffed for me (from my relatively low level play viewpoint).
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  3. #3
    Sounds good to me. I know when they increased Valk attack speed it made no sense. She just need to do a bit more damage which they also did with only 2 moves.
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  4. #4
    Women sure many people on here would probably agree with you. Let's just wait and see how much of a difference it'll be. The zone nerf makes it very dangerous for Pk.

    They also said they wanted to nerf her incrementally so the light spam could be gone in the future
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by massive02 Go to original post
    Women sure many people on here would probably agree with you. Let's just wait and see how much of a difference it'll be. The zone nerf makes it very dangerous for Pk.

    They also said they wanted to nerf her incrementally so the light spam could be gone in the future
    Yeah and I'll be celebrating and playing her as I normally do.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by BananaBlighter Go to original post
    I'm a PK main and I think that right now she's a bit too strong. However after watching the livestream I was quite disappointed with the changes they announced. I think that the light attacks spam was the main problem, and was hoping Ubi would address that so people would stop hating on PKs. It's really annoying for people like me who refuse to use lights (even just a few) because of how they are viewed. I don't want to feel like I'm restricting myself.

    First let me say that I am happy about the zone attack nerf. The fix on the indicator will hopefully make it less annoying to block, because before it was a bit ridiculous how easy it was to get a hit with it. Also treating it like a light attack when blocked was the perfect change to make it more punishable and less safe.

    The increase on the deflect damage will hopefully make it more useful, as right now it's rather high risk and kinda low reward. Contrary to what many say, deflect can be very useful in certain situations, more so than parrying. I mostly use it when fighting long range characters like the Nobushi (her lights are also pretty slow and hence easy to deflect) because when I parry her I never get the GB. I also find it easier to deflect right after cancelling a heavy (on controller) because of the dodge button's proximity. When fighting Valkyries (the class I have the most trouble with), I try to bait them by feinting. Problem is that, unlike the assassins, her dash attacks are so fast that I never parry or even block them in time after the feint. What does sometimes work though is a quick deflect.

    However I am rather disturbed that they chose to nerf the dash attacks by increasing block recovery time and decreasing damage. From watching tournaments and skilled players on YT/Twitch, it seems at high level this move is rarely used because it is already too risky and easy to avoid/block/parry. If so much damage really is coming from these attacks then I doubt their data is coming from high end play (as it should IMO). All the change is gonna do is encourage light spam even more, which I think is the real problem with the PK.

    Honestly it's disgusting watching how some PKs play, using nothing but light attacks to overwhelm. This is what they should have focused on instead. I'm not exactly sure how to nerf this, but I have some suggestions:
    • Slow it down ever so slightly on consoles. I think that most of the hate for her light spam is coming from consoles because lower fps and increased latency mean faster characters have a huge advantage.
    • Reduce the damage. Just slightly. Right now its low risk high reward. Make it low risk low reward. After all, if you just watch the animations it doesn't look like those weak slashes would do much damage anyway; there's no power going into them whatsoever.
    • Increase recovery time if the second light gets blocked - maybe even make it so that you can guarantee an GB. Similar to the zone attack nerf, this would make it much more risky and less safe.
    • Add some sort of extra delay if the PK decides to cut out of the light light heavy chain and go for a third light instead. This would give people getting overwhelmed by her spam a bit of a breather to pull themselves together. With some practice, the first light isn't that hard to block, especially when you are prepared.

    I don't think all of these changes would be necessary to discourage the light spam; in fact all 4 would be a bit too much. I would mostly like to see the last two, so that spamming become less safe rather than less rewarding.

    As an AC fan, I will always be in love with the PK. When the game was first announced and the only known heroes were the Warden, Warlord (iirc) and Orochi (or Oni as he was known at the time), Ubi had some images on their website with concept art showing the silhouettes of all the other heroes. The moment I saw that one of them appeared to be wearing a hood and dual wielding swords, I knew they would be my main. I wouldn't mind it if Ubi made her underpowered (in the right ways) so people can stop whining and i can feel a sense of achievement whenever I make that killing blow.

    I was very pleased with everything else that was said in the stream.
    I love how they buffed her deflect dmg and completely ignored orochis deflect since they are pretty much the same move, but u know **** orochi
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  7. #7
    BananaBlighter's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CandleInTheDark Go to original post
    Gray360uk and I have been saying this since Thursday, pretty much all of it. And yes like you I hesitate to use lights and I refuse to spam them, I pretty much base my game around bleed, if anything with deflect the peacekeeper has been buffed for me (from my relatively low level play viewpoint).
    Yeah the triple stab was something that was complained about a lot in the betas but now I think it's pretty balanced. I use it a lot, especially after parries. Though I also think parries are too rewarding. Only parrying lights should guarantee a GB. This would also encourage deflect on assassins, though it could have a detrimental effect on other classes. Maybe make it different for different classes. Some get a guaranteed GB after parrying a heavy, some don't. I'm very happy with the deflect buff as well.

    Originally Posted by Fenrirwolf24 Go to original post
    Sounds good to me. I know when they increased Valk attack speed it made no sense. She just need to do a bit more damage which they also did with only 2 moves.
    I don't want to call the Valk out as OP or anything, but right now she's the hardest class for me to go up against. Hopefully it's because I haven't had much practice playing against them and eventually I will get the hang of it.

    Originally Posted by massive02 Go to original post
    Women sure many people on here would probably agree with you. Let's just wait and see how much of a difference it'll be. The zone nerf makes it very dangerous for Pk.

    They also said they wanted to nerf her incrementally so the light spam could be gone in the future
    IDK. Th change to the zone is OK because it's still got the same speed, so using it correctly will still guarantee you the hit, it's just that you can't spam it blindly because if the enemy catches on to what you are doing and blocks it, then you get punished. Hope you're right about eventually nerfing the light spam.

    Originally Posted by ProRussian440 Go to original post
    I love how they buffed her deflect dmg and completely ignored orochis deflect since they are pretty much the same move, but u know **** orochi
    I've always felt that the Orochi's deflect light followup already did more damage than the PK's, though it could just be my eyes playing tricks on me (or the fact that one bleeds and the other doesn't). Though don't forget he also has a heavy followup, which, while incredibly hard to pull off against a good opponent, is exceptionally rewarding when it hits. Because barely anyone uses it, it is also unexpected and catches a lot of people off guard.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by BananaBlighter Go to original post
    Yeah the triple stab was something that was complained about a lot in the betas but now I think it's pretty balanced. I use it a lot, especially after parries. Though I also think parries are too rewarding. Only parrying lights should guarantee a GB. This would also encourage deflect on assassins, though it could have a detrimental effect on other classes. Maybe make it different for different classes. Some get a guaranteed GB after parrying a heavy, some don't. I'm very happy with the deflect buff as well.



    I don't want to call the Valk out as OP or anything, but right now she's the hardest class for me to go up against. Hopefully it's because I haven't had much practice playing against them and eventually I will get the hang of it.



    IDK. Th change to the zone is OK because it's still got the same speed, so using it correctly will still guarantee you the hit, it's just that you can't spam it blindly because if the enemy catches on to what you are doing and blocks it, then you get punished. Hope you're right about eventually nerfing the light spam.



    I've always felt that the Orochi's deflect light followup already did more damage than the PK's, though it could just be my eyes playing tricks on me (or the fact that one bleeds and the other doesn't). Though don't forget he also has a heavy followup, which, while incredibly hard to pull off against a good opponent, is exceptionally rewarding when it hits. Because barely anyone uses it, it is also unexpected and catches a lot of people off guard.
    Yeah Valks attack speed is a bit too much but playing other characters i dont have much trouble fighting a Valk.
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  9. #9
    Gray360UK's Avatar Senior Member
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    Totally agree, as Candle said, we've both been saying this since the nerfs were announced. They seem to have completely missed what made the PK a nightmare for people to deal with and what gave birth to the terrible image that she now has ... Light Attack spam.

    Looking for where the damage is coming from as they said they are, is not necessarily going to pick this up. It obviously didn't. I've lost count of how many Light Attack spam complaint threads and montage videos I've seen but that's gone *whoosh* straight over their heads.

    "It's okay everyone, we've identified the problem, it's Sidestep attacks!"



    Problem is, the anti-PK bandwagon has grown so big now, people are jumping on it without even know what's wrong with the class, they just know it must be removed from the game, because someone else said so. One guy today linked a video to show how bad PKs are, and it featured a PK using a skillful combination of 11 attack and defence moves (only one of whcih was a light) in a single Duel round against a Nobushi, before losing two rounds of the same Duel. This apparently was evidence of something bad the PK does. Exists? Wins? Breathes?
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  10. #10
    UbiJurassic's Avatar Community Manager
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    Thanks for the great feedback regarding our recently announced changes to peacekeeper. We are definitely interested to hear the community's thoughts and forward them to the team.
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