Fixing Demons Embrace Abuse | Forums

[TheRevanchist27]

So I've been doing some thinking and I think I know how to deal with this ability being spammed so much by Shugoki players during team games, especially in X vs 1 situations where it's just used as crowd-control to take away control from the player.

Option 1: Make it so that the Shugoki can capture and do massive team damage to teammates with the ability. This will go a long way to ensuring that it is not spammed in close quarters when the target is surrounded by friendlies.

Option 2: Make it so that the victim can only receive damage from the Shugoki (exclude damage from other sources while in animations for DE)

Option 3: Open up the Shugoki to receiving lots of damage from friendly fire when they try to hit someone caught in Demons Embrace.


All of this options individually or combined would do well to help curb the DE abuse.

[Scorchwind]

Option 4: Read the room and don't ignore the shugoki when he's next to you in said situation. It's really easy to sidestep when you figure out how it works.

[Dizzy4213]

Option 4: Read the room and don't ignore the shugoki when he's next to you in said situation. It's really easy to sidestep when you figure out how it works.

This guy gets it.

Shugoki is a disabler, get over it! It's your own fault for not paying more attention to him in a team fight. Also, everything you said could be applied to most of the other characters in team fights. Lawbringer pancake flip, shoulder bash spam, shield bash spam, kick spam, headbutt spam, shield tackle/sweep spam etc. All these moves can be used in a team fight allowing their teammates to land a heavy or two while you're stunned.

[TheRevanchist27]

Also, everything you said could be applied to most of the other characters in team fights. Lawbringer pancake flip, shoulder bash spam, shield bash spam, kick spam, headbutt spam, shield tackle/sweep spam etc. All these moves can be used in a team fight allowing their teammates to land a heavy or two while you're stunned.

Why should it not indeed?

Careless use of crowd-control should have negative consequences. So far the only time I've seen it have a negative consequence for the opposing team is by accident, when a Shugoki charges on a narrow space with a ledge, or a Conqueror throws his shield bash at the wrong time (near a ledge), which I'll admit has netted a team-kill or two.

Crow Control takes away control of the player, and it should be punished when carelessly spammed in close quarters.

Yes one can "read the room" and more often than not, that will lead to a chase and running out the clock. When one has no other choice but to fight, in the chaos it won't always be so clear and easy to see a Shugoki attempting to blind-side you. You'll know it's there, but you'll have limited ability to evade if you're surrounded by a wall of enemies.

[TheRevanchist27]

-Bump

More discussion plz

[Moondyne_MC]

While more friendly fire damage would be nice, I strongly believe that Shugo should "bounce" off if he touches ANYTHING that isn't an enemy (teammates included) when trying for a grab/rush, similar to how you bounce off a failed GB attempt when an enemy is in an attack window.

Also, other characters can absolutely knock you down with friendly fire with their shove/knockdown moves (Valk's Spear Sweep is an especially bad offender), so why shouldn't Shugo's be just as bad, if not worse?

[Bob__Gnarly]

Careless use of crowd-control should have negative consequences.

You're right. They should lose health or something if they miss Demons Embrace, oh wait...

[Casper5632]

The main issue is if you can land guard breaks as a shu near a wall its a free demon's embrace. This wouldent be as threatening if demon's embrace wasnt potentially the hardest hitting move in the game (besides shu's other moves), and able to restore more than half of the attackers health, while making them vulnerable to attacks. If you have one ally nearby then landing a demon's embrace is almost always a death sentence.

[THE_H3XMAN]

Option 3: Open up the Shugoki to receiving lots of damage from friendly fire when they try to hit someone caught in Demons Embrace.

Can confirm that this can already happen to some extent tbh. I've been team killed by kensei and warden players using overhead heavies trying to take down my target during a grab on multiple occasions, that not only should have been an instant kill to the target due to my low health, but effectively did no damage at all on my part on account of my own team taking me out mid animation because they didn't care they were hitting me. Lol. Friendly fire is low damage, but at the values it matters most for that move, it's certainly a potential occurrence to consider.

That's not even getting into the fact you're still 100% susceptible to external damage from enemies during the animation, so in a truly hectic team fight, unless your positioning is such that you're taking down someone on the edge of the melee or pushing out towards it whilst the other enemies are engaged with your teammates, it's still a liability. Smart enemies will target you and shut you down when you charge for the grab. It's a rather small window but it's also perfectly possible. Try getting out of a 3 or 4 player gank as Shugoki at the best of times, let alone when they engage during an attack animation you literally can't cancel.

Honestly, I'm not even a Shugoki main. I've been on the recieving end of that attack many times and almost every one was either because I screwed up, or was distracted with another player.

[dr0dii]

if its a "crowd control" move then it shouldnt do so much damage or require GREAT stamina cost and instant kills is just ridiculous. needs a change not really nerfed so much as changed