Hey everyone,
Im here today to give my honest opinion about the wardens as a character and his arsenal of attacks and combo's from a casual players viewpoint.
All of what I will write in this analysis will be based on my casual midtier level play of the warden, as such I hope you will respect my opinion and try to see it from my viewpoint (and other casual players) viewpoint when reviewing it and commenting.
Now we have that out of the way lets get going with the analysis.
The warden is a vanguard Hero and also the basic hero most people start with when they go to the tutorial ingame.
He is discribed as a well balanced allrounder and easy to learn as a beginner hero.
Durability
Hitpoints: Has 130 hitpoints wich is 10 more then the lowerst healthpool in the game.
Balanced for a vanguard hero.
Stamina: I never have the feeling im to short on stamina whenever I play the warden because most of his attacks dont take away huge chunks of it.(exept zone attacks)
In my personal opinion the warden should use slightly more stamina on certain attacks.
Light attacks
Top light: It does 15 damage and is probably one of the most versatile attacks the warden has due its fast attack speed. It can start combo's, interrupt slower attacks and can be used semi-parry(crushing counterstrike).
Yes its fast, but not unfair. The abilty to combo into vortex and crushing counterstrike has little to do with this attack itself.
Side light: The first hit will do 15 damage and the follow up one does 9 damage. This attack is special because whenever the first one hits the second one is guaranteed and cant be blocked/parried/dodged, resulting in 24 total damage. It also opens up for a combo into a heavy or shoulderbash.
Because of the guaranteed 2nd hit the damage of this light attack is very good but its speed makes it often quitte easy to block/dodge and even parries.
Heavy attacks
Top heavy: This attack is slower then the side heavies but packs quitte a punch of 40 damage for both regular and as a combo finisher.
The wardens most damaging attack, its fair because its generally only guaranteed after you push someone into a wall with a guardbreak or if someone is on the ground. The reason for this is because it is easily blocked/dodge/parried if used otherwise.
Side heavy: The faster, less damaging heavy hit of the warden. If you open up with a side heavy it deals 30 damage and when using it in a combo it will deal 25 damage.
It is a guaranteed hit after a guardbreak, aside from that it is generally easy to block/dodge/parry.
Special attacks
Zone attack: Its fast, has good range and a wide arc and deals 20 damage. It is a zone attack so it always comes from the same direction and uses ~50% of the wardens stamina bar.
The fact that the zone attack always comes from the same side means that you can prepare yourself for it. It cannot chain into anything effectively and if its blocked your opponent can punish you for it. You can however use it at the end of a combo as a suprise attack but will most likely leavy you with very little to no stamina.
Crushing counterstike: Preformed by timing a top parry with a light attack instead of a heavy. It deals a whopping 40 damage to your opponent, and potentialy suprized.
Alot of people I've spoken to tell me that crushing counterstrike is a reason that the warden is toptier. But honestly I have to disagree. For one, its more difficult to pull of a crushing counterstrike and the counterstrike is parryable aswell(unconfirmed). Yes it deals 40 damage wich is alot but considering that instead of crushing counterstrike you could also do a regular parry wich can be folowed up by either a top heavy if you parried a light or a guardbreak and trow them into hazards or chain into a side heavy or side lights. And thats not even considering that regular parries also take away alot of stamina of the opponent leaving them potentially exausted.
Shoulderbash: Is an unblockable attack that deals no damage but staggers your opponent if it connects and gives you a free top light or double side light. It is also chargeable for extra range but this doesnt always leaves you or your opponent in range to follow up with an attack(unconfirmed). It can be canceled regularly but also into a guardbreak attemt, in case your opponent tries to dodge the guardbreak cant be countered.(unconfirmed)
What always made me wonder is why some other heroes wich have unblockable stagger attacks cannot cancel them into a guardbreak and the warden can. In my opinion the wardens shoulderbash is already superior due the fact he can charge it for extra range and unexpected timing aswel as cancel the charge normaly. The reason he can cancel the charge into a guardbreak is also the main reason alot of (casual) players have so much trouble dealing with him. My proposed tweak would be that he is not able to cancel the charge into a guardbreak. Because at the moment you cant punish the warden for missing the charge, instead you get guardbroken and punished for dodging the charge.
Running slash: Preformed by not being locked onto an opponent and using a heavy attack while running. It deals 15 damage and always comes from the right side.
It's a move you dont want to open up with because it is easily parried, you can suprise an exhausted enemy with it though.
Now we have gone over the statistics of the warden lets discuss some of tactics fighting against a warden.
Fighing against a warden:
The first thing you have to know is that the warden is a very good class at playing passive, and quitte often you will encounter a warden who will not actively will attack you.
Against wardens like this I can give the advice to always be prepared for an incoming zone attack, as that is often the only thing they wil trow at you. You can also try to bait the warden to trow zone attacks against you, because blocking one of these will leave him open for a counterattack or guardbreak.
If he is persistend you can try to start feinting attacks and if he goes for the parry you can parry him instead. This though does require moderate ammount of practice to get decent at. The other option is to try and baint him into a toplight attack because that is the wardens best attack to start his chain with, this however does require good parry skills.
If you go up against an agressive warden the game becomes completely diffrent. These wardens often know how to feint and then parry your incoming attack to start their own chain. If you find a warden that is playing the feint game the best thing to (usually do) is to start using light attacks instead of heavies and punish them for using to much feints.
Be wary of the wardens crushing counterstrike and top light opening to a chain, If you are hit by a zone attack dont panic. The zone attack is less worse because it doesnt chain into anything. Also something worth mentioning is that the zone attack can't finish you off (without gear accounted for) if you are at 1 bar of Hitpoints, and since you always regen back to 1 bar in a fight its advised to take distance and guard your left side against a potential zone attack if you are below 1 bar of hitpoints, untill your hitpoints regen back to a full 1 bar.
Then there is the kind of warden that likes to open with shoulderbashes and guardbreaks alot. Against these kind its basicly just counterguardbreaking alot and timing your attacks so that you dont get hit by the bash (you can stop the bash by hitting the warden before he hits you). If you get caught in the light attack + shoulderbash/guardbreak combo you simple dodge backwards twice in a row after he hits you with the light attack, its currently the best defence against this combo but it will often leave you with little to no stamina.
And lastly I have some personal experience tips (from a casual player) for people who wish to pick up the warden.
*The top light attack is a good opener to combo's, a feint top heavy into a top light can often open you up for a combo or even a crushing counterstrike if they went for a parry.
*Dont rely on your zone attack too much, as it is easily punished. Personaly I only use it as a combo finisher or if my opponent hitpoints are below 1 bar so it kills them.
*Make use of your environment, push enemies into a wall for a guaranteed top heavy.
*Mix up your combo's, being predictable makes you an easy opponent.
*Even though the warden's very good at parrying dont be afraid to dodge and block sometimes, you dont have to parry every attack your opponent trows at you.
*Stay calm, even if you are on 1 bar of health and your opponent is at full health. As long as you keep a cool head you still have a chance.
Thats it for this analysis, I hope you guys enjoy reading it and if you have feedback, comments please go ahead. You can also be a massive help if you can confirm some of the (unconfirmed) things in this analysis. Please remember that this is a casual players opinion and not a high level competitive players.
Greetings,
Fruttie
The Shoulderbash comes out slower that Lawbringer's Shove or Warlord Headbutt, i don't know if you would be able to roll away from these attacks.Originally Posted by Fruttie Go to original post
Also, the Shoulderbash can be punished by some characters, like assassins or Valkyrie, because from my personal experience dodge attacks beat the normal Shoulderbash AND the guardbreak cancel (the GBC fails because the attack of the opponent is already active). The only way for Warden to not be punished by this is to cancel (feint button) the Shoulderbash at startup.
I will give my vision on why the shoulder bash is balanced and not a problem in my opinion:
First, it is very reactable, and you can simply roll away and reset. I know it takes stam, but with proper management, it is really easy to deal with.
But even if you decide to play the "50/50", you are not at such a big disadvantage, because if you guess right, you actually punish the warden.
If you think he is going to cancel into gb, do a light attack
If you think he is going to bash dodge and do a light attack
If he feints, you are relatively safe (unless you attempted a side dodge attack with an assassin or valk or kensei, but I wouldnt recommend those)
If he charges the bash, you can see it easily, roll away.
Sure. it involves guessing, but there are a lot of good possible outcomes for you.
Also, most light attacks interrupt the vortex after the first bash into side light.
So if you analyze all of the outcomes:
If you guessed wrong, you take a side light into comboed side light (24 damage), or a heavy (30 damage, 40 damage if wall splat)
If you guessed right, you get a light (between 15 and 25 damage, 32 for Orochi double toplight), and regain the initiative, as a light is an important combo starter for some chars (kensei and lawbringer in particular).
Sure, there is a slight disadvantage in your favor, but the warden takes the risk to initiate, so either a dodge (easy punish with a good gb guess, and pressing gb is quite safe), or a toplight that is easy to parry with proper reaction.
On top of that, raider completely counters the bash, and conq negates almost 100% of the options. Some chars also get a free gb if they dodged an uncancelled bash with proper timing (notably warlord)
Warden is a noob stomper, or maybe an average player stomper, but against skilled opponent, shoulder bash comes out pretty even and is actually riskier than people seem to think. Especially compared to the current versions of headbutt, shield charge, and PK zone that are very hard to punish
If you guessed right, but he cancel the bash mid animation into a Gb you will still guessed wrong.Originally Posted by Djebeo Go to original post
Want to keep spammable bash ? Ok, but he needs to be not cancellableand if i dodge it right, warden must be punished with a gb, RIGHT NOW IF YOU ARE NOT AN ASSASSIN, GOOD LUCK. Same with conqueror, the recovery frames after the bash are too low, is virtually unpunishable.
As lb if i miss a Longarm, I am in serious danger, wardens can keep to spam it without stamina, recovery frames problems. Thats just the definition of "Unbalanced"