Member
Hello.
Really love the game and hate to see it dying, so I thought maybe I'll throw in some professional expertise on the rebalancing subject.
When balancing characters in a PvP game, please be aware that constant nerfing cycle is rarely a way to go - when balancing characters they have to be looked at not as individuals but as a whole. When nerfing one character, another one is almost bound to take her place on the top. I allowed myself to perform an extensive analysys of all for honor characters as a whole (their current problems and suggestion for improvements). Okay here we go:
Warden problem:
People complain about warden vortex and super fast zone attacks however I believe warden is a great balancing point for other characters. Vortex is easily canceled by either rolling out back or a fast light attack and the zone can be easily predicted and even reacted with the right reflexes. This does not change the fact that Warden is in fact lacking proper mixups, therefore people are almost forced to spam vortex - BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING ELSE WARDEN HAS.
Suggestions for improving warden:
- Speed up side light attacks to nearlty the speed of top light so that Warden has more opening tools instead of just top light and zone.
- Crushing counterstrike should be available also from the side and also it should be a chain starter
- Third heavy in Vanguard's Advance should be unblockable (people barely ever use full attack chains as they are super high risk)
- Slow down his guard stance change speed just a little bit
Peacekeeper problem::
In short? Light attack spam - light attack speed across the table and zone attack spam. In my opinion.
Suggestions for improving PK:
- Peacekeeper speed is all she has really. If that is taken away from the character it will drop down straight from top to the bottom of the tier. Why? Because right now PK's are performing well because their light attack switches can be faster than Guard stance switching of some heroes, making PK a good can opener and also a counter for turtling meta. Think about it: How PK's are winning despite having no unblockable attacks? SPEEED. Take it away and you have a mediocre attack speed hero with high mobility but very little health and barely any tools in her kit. Rather than nerfing PK speed I would look into guard stance change speeds of other characters. They should all be fast enough to allow a decent block against a PK but ony with incredibly good reflexes
- I would only nerf the speed on Zone attack first hit of PK. 7 frames is a little too steep. I'd make it still faster than a light attack maybe but not so crushingly faster than any other attack in the game.
Nobushi and Lawbringer Problem:
Nobushi and LB are actually really good. Lots of cool tool and mixups to outsmart your opponents. The only problem is the Guard Stance switch time.
Suggestion for improving Nobushi:
- Just buff the Guard Stance switching time to a decent level and Nobushi / LB will be completely viable.
Warlord Problem::
Simply overloaded kit, stats and easily available barely punishable low risk high reward moves (Headbutt anyone?)
Suggestion for improving Wardlord:
- Headbutt needs a slightly bigger startup time (not much) and a little bigger stamina cost as of now it's almost free.
- Hyperarmor needs to go. I'd say hyperarmor should be completely removed from the game as this break all other displacement and disabling mechanics.
- Wardlord Guard Stance speed is fasters in the whole game at 5 frames. That is absolutely not acceptible as the only character at which I would accept such defence cpabilities is conqueror and as long as I remember Conq is at about 12 frames. This means Warlord can switch guarding directions over twice as fast as the supposedly biggest tank in the game (which lacks offensive capabilities). No character should ever have below 7 frames guard change speed. Ramp it up o 11 or so to further combat the turtling meta.
- Done. It's that easy. Warlord has plenty other tools to go around
Shugoki Problem:
Well people of course complain about the hyper armor and the "you lose button" aka demon grab.
Suggestion for improving Shugoki:
- Once again. Hyper armor needs to go completely or should be switched into something else (for example first hit received on hyper armor deals only 50% dmg but will stagger)
Hyperarmor simply absolutely break most of the displacement or even chain attack mechanics. I've been grabbed by shugoki mid swing on a second hit in a Valkerie light attack chain. Or performed a shoulder bash just to get hit with a charged heavy in the face. Seriously this should not be a thing. Classes without extremely fast light attack chains will almost always lose trades with a Shugoki and even then if he just turtles it creates the most boring and frustrating machup of the century (since you basicly have to start with a light attack and he can just block it or even worse grab you through it or parry it.)
- Demon grab should never be able to 100 to 0 anyone. Regardless of health. I'm fine if it would trade shugoki's HP for your hp, Leaving shugoki at 100 and you still alive, but yeah.. Instakill is a very bad idea in a game like this.
Orochi Problem:
Only problem of orochi is that glitch top attack indicator into a sudden ultra fast zone side attack.
Suggestion for improving Orochi:
- Remove the indicator glitch and slow down the zone attack by about 2-3 frames, unless you want orochi to quickly jump into PK's places when she's nerfed
Conqueror Problem:
Obviously people complain about shield spam into side heavy/light attack. But think... What else conqueror has? What is left if that is taken away?
Suggestion for improving Conqueror
- Remove the inability to counter guardbreak when charging attacks.
- Add possibility to charge light attacks so that they are barely blockable or parryable at full charge with a slight damage increase.
- Last Heavy attack in attack chain should always be unblockable.
- Shield Bash should deal a little lest stamina damage to make the vortex a little less annoying if someone can't just dodge.
Berserker Problem:
Not currently in a bad place, but most certainly lacks variety in his kit and tools to open up an oppenent.
Suggestions for imporving Berserker:
- Top Heavy attack in an infinite chain should be unblockable and end the chain.
- Every hit in infinite chain should be performed with increased speed up to a cap (risky enough to spam attacks, might as well give it some high risk high reward value)
Will be back soon with rest of the characters but I have to get back to work for now. Any thoughts?
Raider Problem:
Simply lack of followups after Guardbreaking your opponent.
Suggestions for imporving Raider:
- Simply add viable followups or a free heavy as a chain starter after a successful guardbreak.
- Fix the glitch indicator of course
Valkerie is fine. Has some nice mixups but is easily punishable for repeating certain patterns.
Thoughts?
Member
Senior Member
No one is replying because of the idiocy of these suggestions. The Warden category alone makes you lose all credibility.Originally Posted by Charanis Go to original post
And the Peacekeeper area, my god. You support being able to attack faster than characters can change guard? Are you clinically ******ed?
Member
If you read my suggestions kind sir you would find that I did suggest increasing guard stance change speed for all characters that actually need it (Nobushi, Lawbringer, Raider) to a point that it is actually possible to switch your guard in time to block a slightly slower (nerfed speed) PK Zone attack. I'm not saying it should be easy, I''m saying that every play should have a counterplay.Originally Posted by PepsiBeastin Go to original post
Member
I found posts like this very uninteresteing since i cant care less if a class gets some tweaks when the core game needs a fix first. Thats the priority, thats why i dont like the game thats why the game lacks depth at high level. You are not even playing your class, you are playing the parry-defensive system with all classes, you use a small amount of your kit and some moves like sidestepping+attacking and parry initself just feels very cheap and doesnt encourage a good interaction which should be key from a AAA developer these days.
So unless the core gets fixed, balance changes to classes feels super irrelevant to a player of my skill level
