Some great ideas for Lawbringer buffs | Forums

[Dizzy4213]

Are you saying you know how a move performs in combat, despite having never used it yourself? We don't know Make Way's damage output or stamina consumption, or how easy it is to parry. You can't reasonably make an argument to remove it when we have *zero* experience with the move itself.

That true, but you don't need to be a genius to guess how it will work. The damage and stamina consumption will most likely be the same as the normal zone attack. You don't need to have experienced it to make a reasonably argument. You can tell just from the video tutorial what it's going to be like. As it stands, I have no reason to assume the speed, damage or stamina consumption will be any different than the regular zone attack. Of course I'll gladly take back what I said if it turns out to be useful and is actually different from just a regular zone attack. Until then, I will assume it to be completely trash.

[Felis_Menari]

That true, but you don't need to be a genius to guess how it will work. The damage and stamina consumption will most likely be the same as the normal zone attack. You don't need to have experienced it to make a reasonably argument. You can tell just from the video tutorial what it's going to be like. As it stands, I have no reason to assume the speed, damage or stamina consumption will be any different than the regular zone attack. Of course I'll gladly take back what I said if it turns out to be useful and is actually different from just a regular zone attack. Until then, I will assume it to be completely trash.

Make all the assumptions you want. Just don't call for the removal of something based on just a feeling.

[TCTF_SWAT]

Get rid of the ZA? Are you high? So you want me to kill minions painfully slow, one at a time? I don't have that time in dominion.

[STRlKEBOMB]

Get rid of the ZA? Are you high? So you want me to kill minions painfully slow, one at a time? I don't have that time in dominion.

He meant the one AFTER a parry (its bugged right now), not the zone attack against minions.

[TCTF_SWAT]

He meant the one AFTER a parry (its bugged right now), not the zone attack against minions.

Again...are you high? I use it all the time. Considering that minions (winions) can be a royal pain in the ***. So clearing there asses outta the way when you're fighting someone is nice. At least for me.

[TheCadian_]

I strongly disagree with this. He absolutely needs the same guard change speed as every other hero. To suggest otherwise is completely insane. It is extremely unfair and unbalanced that some heroes can block faster than others. At the very least, he definitely needs an increase in his attack speed. Either that or give him hyper armour on his heavies.



Nice idea, but why not make every top attack stun instead? Both light and heavy.



Another good suggestion. To add to that, remove the 'successful hit' requirement from the shove mix up and allow shove to be to used in-between attack chains. For example, the light/heavy/heavy chain could now be light/shove/heavy.



I can agree that it should be unblockable. If that is not possible then it definitely needs a reduced stamina cost. Impaling Charge in its current state does not warrant the huge amount of stamina it drains. Your idea whilst cool, just seems really gimmicky with little to no real use.



I like the idea of the stun, however, it needs more to make it worth using. Currently, I see no reason to use light riposte over a parry/GB/side heavy. Unless it's an opponent who can't be GB after a parry. That being said, give it a stunning property and allow it to link to all of his chains. Not just a specific one.



Yes, although I personally think it could use a slight damage buff. If I remember correctly it does 30 damage which is pretty average for a heavy attack. Since you have to parry a light attack to make use of it, I think it should be more rewarding. Maybe do 40-45 damage.



Completely agree.

Whilst you have listed some nice ideas, sadly Lawbringer is fundamentally broken. He is gonna to need more than a few buffs in my opinion. He is listed as a counter-attacker and disabler, yet he fails at what he was designed to do. His counter attacking moves are poor and the only disabling ability he really has is his long arm. He needs more unique abilities. Compared to Shugoki and Valkyrie, he is the weakest of the bunch by far. Lawbringer has a stunning top heavy, that's it! Valkyrie meanwhile has a dodge-counter, superior block property and a load of mix-ups and cancels. For the Lawbringer who wields the 'most versatile weapon ever invented' I expected so much more.

Not to mention there are a load of bugs and other issues that also need fixing. Like players seemingly phasing through my side heavy unblockable. Not sure what the exact issue is but it's extremely frustrating. If it was just assassins I could understand but it isn't. I think Lawbringer needs a range increase for sure to fix this issue. I can't help but feel like I'm wielding a dagger sometimes instead of a pole-axe.

Fundamentally broken is far too strong a term to the point of being hyperbole, as the Lawbringer isn't necessarily well balanced, and I would love to find out what metric 'fundamentally broken fits into.

Now the Lawbringer is by no means a good character, high tier for the competitive community of this game, but I've never understood all of these assertions that the Lawbringer utterly fails to fulfill it's role of counter attacker and disabler. His counter attacks simply don't do a great deal of damage as opposed to being ineffective (and I refer to the post parry light attack). He's consistently able to pin characters into long and drawn out fights, control their movements, and counter attack in small increments after an attack.

I mean I love my Lawbringer, I do well with my Lawbringer, and I love some of these changes but I, by no means, would want to see more than a small handful of these implemented at any one time, very rarely to knee jerk reactions to an issue lead to good balance.

[Dizzy4213]

Fundamentally broken is far too strong a term to the point of being hyperbole, as the Lawbringer isn't necessarily well balanced, and I would love to find out what metric 'fundamentally broken fits into.

Now the Lawbringer is by no means a good character, high tier for the competitive community of this game, but I've never understood all of these assertions that the Lawbringer utterly fails to fulfill it's role of counter attacker and disabler. His counter attacks simply don't do a great deal of damage as opposed to being ineffective (and I refer to the post parry light attack). He's consistently able to pin characters into long and drawn out fights, control their movements, and counter attack in small increments after an attack.

I wouldn't say it's a far too strong term. The Lawbringer is classified as a 'counter-attacker' and 'disabler'. Yet he fails at doing both of those two things. When a character can't do what he was designed to do, I think that qualifies being fundamentally broken. What's the difference between a Lawbringer parrying an attack and someone else? None! He has no outstanding qualities. Rather than a few buffs I would prefer a entire rework. New combos, new abilities etc. Everything about him just feels poorly designed. None of his moves work well together. Valkyrie is also a disabler but she can do so much more than Lawbringer. Dodge-counter, Superior block, mix-ups, cancels, stuns etc. You only have to look at the Lawbringer's moveset to see this. It's hilarious that he's classed as a counter-attacker and yet doesn't have a superior block property don't you think?

[TheCadian_]

I wouldn't say it's a far too strong term. The Lawbringer is classified as a 'counter-attacker' and 'disabler'. Yet he fails at doing both of those two things. When a character can't do what he was designed to do, I think that qualifies being fundamentally broken. What's the difference between a Lawbringer parrying an attack and someone else? None! He has no outstanding qualities. Rather than a few buffs I would prefer a entire rework. New combos, new abilities etc. Everything about him just feels poorly designed. None of his moves work well together. Valkyrie is also a disabler but she can do so much more than Lawbringer. Dodge-counter, Superior block, mix-ups, cancels, stuns etc. You only have to look at the Lawbringer's moveset to see this. It's hilarious that he's classed as a counter-attacker and yet doesn't have a superior block property don't you think?

Firstly I think he does fulfills all of the requirements of the two classifications he is offered, that said the effectiveness of those things is up for debate, these being "counter attacker" and "disabler" that I refer to.

In terms of counter attacking we both know he gets "Blind Justice" (pardon me if I am wrong) a strong attack on a parried top heavy (the effectiveness is debatable) and a guaranteed strike from "Blind Justice" if you parry a top light. Additionally the Lawbringer gets an unstoppable/unblockable/uninterruptible (forgive the hazy terminology) on any parry in the form of a Light Attack. Additionally the Lawbringer can theoretically use shove after a successful block to stop an opponents chain in it's tracks allowing for follow up attacks. Those to me fulfill the role of counter attacker (effectiveness debatable), and though some of these abilities are shared between other classes it does no diminish the functionality of the Lawbringer itself.

I am not convinced a counter attacker class needs the Superior Block property in order to counter attack well.

As for disabler we are both aware of what the Low Arm throw is (for those who don't it is the Backwards and Guard Break technique that throws an opponent over the shoulder if it lands) allowing the Lawbringer to effectively hold/trap the opponent in an animation for a second or so and re-position them. We're both aware you can use this is 2v2 and 4v4 game modes to pin certain players in position while your allies land hits, also in 1v1 situations prolong the fights while draining stamina.

Now the effectiveness and value of this technique is debated back and forth with some suggesting it is impossible to land in skilled opponents, other that it has no value because it doesn't do any damage directly and only guarantees a light attack, while others like me adore this technique for the damage it inflicts on an opponents stamina and the pinning effect of it on an opponent (personally I throw this attack out relatively infrequently so I tend to get the most of it, I don't snub the free light of the Long Arm or post parry because those hits add up).

In my mind this, along with the Impaling Charge which essentially takes control of a character away from the opposing player for a few seconds, and the Shove which can cut a chain short (providing the techniques land) is the definition of disabler.

As for the effectiveness of the techniques, well I figure they are as viable (in sub competitive environments) as viable as you can make them be.

That said don't get me wrong I want changes for the Lawbringer to bring them closer to balance but I do not want to see them over buffed.

I could seriously use a double light attack combo as an interrupt but for me I don't really feel like I either want a total rework or massive changes. I like the class for what it is even if it is low tier and relatively underpowered. It just needs more options.

That and the aesthetics of the Lawbringer are hands down (I don't accept other answers because... um.... err...) the best and the movesets of the weapon look and feel very appropriate for the weapon (with some fantasy-esque deviations).