Shugoki's Demon grab is broken | Forums

[CoyoteXStarrk]

It feels like I'm talking to a brick wall.

Its because you are.


His argument is essentially "SHUGOKI GRAB OP CUZ REASONS"


Then he gets mad when people bring facts to the table.

[Simi_Xiamara_]

Its inefficient. Not impossible.


Its not that she CANNOT do her job.


Its just that there are better ways to play her.


How does this confuse you?


Also we have gotten off track you completely ignored all of the completely valid downsides to the Shugoki grab in order to discuss the PK due to your own asinine comment. I am done discussing that because the grab is the topic of the thread and I am done derailing the thread over it.


Back to the subject at hand. The Shugoki's grab has the numerous downsides that I listed.


Your response?

Ok sure

Shigoki can grabs you he heals he misses he losses hp thats fine reward for landing a hard skill.also like to throw in that same skill can 1 shot you

Now in a team fight all of the negative of using this skill are non existent unless of course your opponent is locked onto you

Soo now you have a skill that
*is extremely easy land
*heals you
*takes 2 bars of damage OR flat out one shot you
* guarantees each person on your team at least 2-3 top heavys

Now let's say for some stupid reason you do miss in a team fight

*You lose 2 bars of hp
*maybe lose all your stamina? (Not sure)

It is very unlikely people are going turn around and attack you esp if you only lost 2 bars. And tbh missing a grab in a team fight is pretty damn hard

In 1v1 this skill is perfect

[CoyoteXStarrk]

Ok sure

Shigoki can grabs you he heals he misses he losses hp thats fine reward for landing a hard skill.also like to throw in that same skill can 1 shot you

Now in a team fight all of the negative of using this skill are non existent unless of course your opponent is locked onto you

Soo now you have a skill that
*is extremely easy land
*heals you
*takes 2 bars of damage OR flat out one shot you
* guarantees each person on your team at least 2-3 top heavys

Now let's say for some stupid reason you do miss in a team fight

*You lose 2 bars of hp
*maybe lose all your stamina? (Not sure)

It is very unlikely people are going turn around and attack you esp if you only lost 2 bars. And tbh missing a grab in a team fight is pretty damn hard

In 1v1 this skill is perfect

Okay so you are saying the ability is fine unless its against multiple people.


1) If you are outnumbered then you are screwed 90% of the time anyway unless you run away like a coward

2) In that same situation a Lawbringer or Nobushi is pretty much just as bad. You wanna complain about them to?

3) That same Shugoki can walk up to and unblockable heavy you into oblivion rather than grab you

4) In the SAME situation with a different hero that enemy instead of grabbing you is just gonna combo you.

5) Also at least if you DO decide to run a Shugoki has NO WAY to catch you. Another hero instead can just chase you.



You are essentially just yelling at the clouds for raining at this point.

[The_B0G_]

I main the fat man mostly for this exact reason in Dominion; it's a fantastic revenge neutralizer.

It warms my heart to see a Conqueror or Warlord shrugging off the attacks of an entire team, smugly confident in their ability to farm revenge in two or three hits, only to be unceremoniously hoisted up on a fat, sweaty shoulder before being beaten like a Meat Piñata™. I LIKE MY CONQUEROR MEAT TENDER, and the salt from the recently chiropracted just adds to the flavor. Bonus points if you hoist them after the triumphant revenge activation animation.

Shugobro a disabler, and revenge farmers hate that, in any form. I see people complaining about the Conqueror's shield charge, the Lawbringer's hilarious pancake flip, and even the Warlord's headbutt, simply because they are great tools for negating godmode, and dammit, what good is all this fancy revenge gear if you can't solo an entire team?

In 1v1, the Shug is merely competitive, where the embrace is only guaranteed after a wall throw, and a near suicidal gimmick outside that. In Dominion, he's like a morbidly obese land shark - you can deal with him if you pay attention to him, but if you ignore him, he gets a free meal.

^ This is bang on, I call him the fat ninja, unless he has top revenge gear, he is fairly easy to beat solo, but when he has help you usually want to kill his help first and you usually pay with your life if you ignore him too much because he'll sneak up with either an unblockable heavy, or the bear hug.

[Simi_Xiamara_]

Okay so you are saying the ability is fine unless its against multiple people.


1) If you are outnumbered then you are screwed 90% of the time anyway unless you run away like a coward

2) In that same situation a Lawbringer or Nobushi is pretty much just as bad. You wanna complain about them to?

3) That same Shugoki can walk up to and unblockable heavy you into oblivion rather than grab you

4) In the SAME situation with a different hero that enemy instead of grabbing you is just gonna combo you.

5) Also at least if you DO decide to run a Shugoki has NO WAY to catch you. Another hero instead can just chase you.

1) actually 1v4 is easy unless a shigoki grabs you

2)Lawbringer is just as guilty but at least hitting him stops his long arm attack (immunity should be added for this skill also)

Nobushi is a stagger at most MAYBE 1 person will land a top heavy

3)unblockable heavys are telegraphed very well
*he screams
*he has fire around him
*and your block thing is bright a$$ red with a "!"

4 )grabs are can be counter guardbroken (maybe 1 attack will hit you in the .5 sec counter guard break animation)

5)running is the only viable thing you said.
Running is a option but at same time not all classes can outrun 4 ppl

[Kiiyor]

What bothers ppl is if you are not locked onto him and he grabs you one time your dead his whole team can top heavy you 2-3 times before you get up...

Now that's just hyperbole. Have you ever actually attacked someone on a Shugoki's shoulder? 2-3 top heavies, lol. Stamina, animation time and positioning aside, that's ludicrous - and it's not nearly half as bad as the conquerors running knockdown. I have personally witnessed multiple occasions where the whole team has been able to attack with eleventy billion top heavies and combos whilst pausing in between to complete full emotes after a conqueror shield charge. #nerftherah

Semantics aside, we're arguing about the survival of a player being attacked by 4 players here. It's a sad indicator of the state of the defensive meta and revenge that people expect to be able to survive this, and it's an even sadder indicator of the state of player's mindsets that they would be angry at characters who are designed to be strong in multiple player engagements, and to break through said defensive meta.

[Devastatius]

It is just stupid that he can kill you just like that with ONE attack that is hard to doge and, yes while it DOES reduce his health if it misses, it will STOP doing that if this would kill him. So as soon as his health is bellow the last bar and his opponents health is still ... maybe FULL, he has literally nothing to loose and can then just ONE HIT?!? And to add insult to injury he even REGENERATES a scaling amount of health from this WTF. I mean if someone ledges you that is one thing, you can at least look upon such a trick and think: ... Yeah . BUT NOT with the stupid ONEHIT Grab. I mean ... srsly. The Shaman can do something similar, and while I kind of laugh about that bite move It at LEAST is not even half as broken as the Shugoki Grab. Because despite of its regenerative ability it is still just a more or less regular attack. It cannot onehit. Now here is what should be done, and keep in mind that he actually gets MORE health the more injured the Shugoki is: Remove its ability to onehit, and remove the mechanic that increases the amount of health he regenerates the more hurt he is, and if that is too much nerf then maybe make it harder to doge again, and noone sais that it should not regenerate quite a bit health. But just not as much as he gets when he ONEHITS right now

[CRIMS0NM0NKEY]

I'd just like to say something about demons embrace. The tracking is horrible and getting damaged for a hug is stupid considering raiders charge is superior in nearly every way alone with shamans bite.
I use it allot in dominion during battle not just wall spats. The are certain times when the risk Vs reward of a demons embrace are worth it. Landing a demons embrace is all about perfect timing and misdirection imo. Even then, with the opponent stand perfectly still, the DE will fail for no reason at all.
That said one of my favorite times to hug is when the person being ganked has no choice but to pop revenge as soon as he gets it. Pressing the revenge button is now a game of Russian roulette with four bullets in the chambers and guess whose up first?
If u die trying a de odds are good your team mates will revive you anyways. Just last night as a hail marry attempt to win a dominion match I landed two miracle DE s in two separate games winning the dominion games with the one shot kill. Were they fair? Yes. Without a doubt. Considering all I had to go through to get that desperate..the death sentence it means If I miss it.. And the ridicule I'd probably get from teammates for dropping the ball on a near impossible shot...yea it's more than fair.

[ChampionRuby50g]

So before this thread gets closed for necromancy, I just wanna say:

If you are getting hit by DE outside of been wall splatted or in a gank situation, that’s on you. If you struggle to dodge a move that’s 1200ms and has a massive start up, maybe you need to work on your dodging.

I disagree with the One shot kill on DE, and you should be knocked out of DE if enemies hit you, or you have revenge during that duration.

PS to the mod who will close this thread: why do you close threads that are old and have comments on them again? Is it that you prefer newer topics be made as many of the original commenters in the thread may no longer be active on the forums?

[UbiJurassic]

So before this thread gets closed for necromancy, I just wanna say:

If you are getting hit by DE outside of been wall splatted or in a gank situation, that’s on you. If you struggle to dodge a move that’s 1200ms and has a massive start up, maybe you need to work on your dodging.

I disagree with the One shot kill on DE, and you should be knocked out of DE if enemies hit you, or you have revenge during that duration.

PS to the mod who will close this thread: why do you close threads that are old and have comments on them again? Is it that you prefer newer topics be made as many of the original commenters in the thread may no longer be active on the forums?

Very old threads that receive new comments are usually closed to prevent confusion from what has been said in the past and now. The game has changed quite a bit from March 20th of 2017 (the last time this thread was active) and now. In order to keep conversations relevant to the current state of the game, we encourage players who want to discuss it to create new threads.

That said, we'll be closing this thread.