The One Change to Rule Them All (Destroying the Defensive Meta) | Forums

[djcastem]

I don't think balance between characters can be achieved in a single change, but I do think one simple change can change the defensive meta entirely.

The change:
Increase the recovery frames of a Parry (for the character performing the Parry).

Essentially, this will remove the ability to turn a Parry into free damage (Parry > GB > Heavy). Parry would become more of a way to 'reset’ the battle (stop an offense and bring things back to neutral), instead of a way to guarantee damage.

What happens if this change is implemented?

1) Attacking will be much more prevalent. Since you no longer get guaranteed damage from a Parry, attacking will be the primary way to deal damage and it will be far less risky to attack than before.

2) Counter-attackers regain their niche. When every character can Parry into free damage, every character can essentially counter-attack. By removing that, characters with true counter-attacks and defensive options will actually stand out (instead of being similar to everyone else).

3) Movesets open up. There are chains and attacks that are rarely used as they're too easy to Parry and/or a Parry punishes them too heavily. When Parry is no longer such a huge threat, more options become available/viable to use.

In the end, I think this change would shift the meta in a better direction and offer more interesting (less turtle) gameplay.

[Mr_Gallows]

While this idea doesn't really fix the issues with blocking, it is a good ermegency fix. I would rather see parry speed the action up for a moment instead of pausing it. Makes combat more smooth.

[Kitsune..]

Essentially, this will remove the ability to turn a Parry into free damage (Parry > GB > Heavy). Parry would become more of a way to 'reset’ the battle (stop an offense and bring things back to neutral), instead of a way to guarantee damage.

This change will be gamebreaking for kensei, we can only rely on parry>GB to land some damage now.

[nf_Straydog]

With your proposition there would be no reason to do anything other than light attack. Light attack would stuff unblockables, heavy attacks, guard breaks and anything else that isn't armored. With no damage from parrying there would be no reason not to just do light attacks as often as possible. Anyway, parrying is not the issue. At least when people parry you can bait it and punish them. The issue is when people DON'T parry and just rely on passive blocking and unblockable, unparryable attacks, like conq bash, warden shoulder, warlord headbutt.

[guor6800]

This change will be gamebreaking for kensei, we can only rely on parry>GB to land some damage now.

In some cases we cant even do this. If you parry a kensei (or any other "good range" char) with a kensei say goodbye to free GB

[Synsif]

I don't think balance between characters can be achieved in a single change, but I do think one simple change can change the defensive meta entirely.

The change:
Increase the recovery frames of a Parry (for the character performing the Parry).

Essentially, this will remove the ability to turn a Parry into free damage (Parry > GB > Heavy). Parry would become more of a way to 'reset’ the battle (stop an offense and bring things back to neutral), instead of a way to guarantee damage.

What happens if this change is implemented?

1) Attacking will be much more prevalent. Since you no longer get guaranteed damage from a Parry, attacking will be the primary way to deal damage and it will be far less risky to attack than before.

2) Counter-attackers regain their niche. When every character can Parry into free damage, every character can essentially counter-attack. By removing that, characters with true counter-attacks and defensive options will actually stand out (instead of being similar to everyone else).

3) Movesets open up. There are chains and attacks that are rarely used as they're too easy to Parry and/or a Parry punishes them too heavily. When Parry is no longer such a huge threat, more options become available/viable to use.

In the end, I think this change would shift the meta in a better direction and offer more interesting (less turtle) gameplay.

I simply cannot agree with this. This would be a great idea, but there's one issue. There are some characters, such as Orochi and Kensei, that don't have many ways to obtain damage consistently. As an Orochi main, I can tell y9u that all we really have are top lights, GB into a heavy, the zone, and parrying. All of these except partying is easily get around (zone is arguable I suppose). Parrying is a necessary part of my kit and the only real damage that I know for certain I can get off. This could make my Orochi weaker than he already is.

[SAVAGE_CABBAGE1]

I don't think balance between characters can be achieved in a single change, but I do think one simple change can change the defensive meta entirely.

The change:
Increase the recovery frames of a Parry (for the character performing the Parry).

Essentially, this will remove the ability to turn a Parry into free damage (Parry > GB > Heavy). Parry would become more of a way to 'reset’ the battle (stop an offense and bring things back to neutral), instead of a way to guarantee damage.

What happens if this change is implemented?

1) Attacking will be much more prevalent. Since you no longer get guaranteed damage from a Parry, attacking will be the primary way to deal damage and it will be far less risky to attack than before.

2) Counter-attackers regain their niche. When every character can Parry into free damage, every character can essentially counter-attack. By removing that, characters with true counter-attacks and defensive options will actually stand out (instead of being similar to everyone else).

3) Movesets open up. There are chains and attacks that are rarely used as they're too easy to Parry and/or a Parry punishes them too heavily. When Parry is no longer such a huge threat, more options become available/viable to use.

In the end, I think this change would shift the meta in a better direction and offer more interesting (less turtle) gameplay.

Or, we can simplify this, and make it to where they can CGB after they get parried, but everything else the same.

[The-Portal]

The change:
Increase the recovery frames of a Parry (for the character performing the Parry).

I completly agree with this and I add :
Make blocking drains stamina to limite attack chains after too many blocks.

[LoliconSekai]

But if we implemented this, there will be EVEN more SPAMMERS compare to now, because if parry will only reset the battle basically all they need to do is repeating what they did until you die.

If i'm using a berserker or any fast or maybe hard hitting heroes then i can just ( hit you > hit you > you parried me > battle reset > i hit you again > hit again > you parried > battle reset > i hit you again > i hit you again > you die > you reset for 15 sec )

There will be much more of these situations arise if this is implemented, and you will somehow ended up doing exactly as what i'm doing above once everybody get used to it.

Why not just name this game For Spammers then, it's sound great...

[TCTF_SWAT]

This....doesn't solve anything. "resets" You can basically do that with blocking lights. the only benefit to parrying would be a stamina drain (but then the attacker could just back off and regain stamina so now what?)

why not just follow the LB setup?

Parry a heavy get a free 100% guaranteed light (no auto doubles though)
Parry a light get a free 100% guaranteed heavy (aka your strongest hitting move wouldn't be able to get a fully charged heavy however for either shugoki or conq though)

Remove heavies after GB (although this can be an issue with kensei and PK attacks but that's another topic and again no auto doubles either). since Gb allows potential OHK and wall stuns/knockdowns.

Speed up basic lights to 30 frames for everyone (except cockroach because noone likes that character), speed up chain lights for everyone to say.....14-16 frames (not quite as fast as PK but nearing there).

The only thing left is whether or not to make teching GB's harder or making GB faster (but still uncomfortable after a parry).

I believe this would give more comfort in fighting near hazards, (or bridges, ledges etc etc). Reduced the reward gained from parrying heavies (lights are basically unaffected for most characters but it's a buff to raider at least) and reduced the reward from a GB (no more heavies).