Revenge mode in 1v1 : what's the problem ? | Forums

[Gojema]

Revenge can lead to random instantkills and that is just not good for the game.

[SnugglesIV]

I read many people saying that the revenge mode shouldn't be triggered in duels. I see many duels where people just trigger it when available and what for it to pass, feeling "honorable" etc. Why is that ?

I mean, in every fighting games since Fatal Fury 2, we have some kind of comeback mechanics. In Street Fighter, when your Super/EX/Whatever bar is filled (which is usually late in the round) you gain access to very powerful move. This is exactly what the revenge mode is. This is not some kind of "i win" button, against a skilled player you still need use it well to benefit from it. Also, gears are not taken in account in duels.

So, anybody can explain me the real issue with the revenge mode in this situation ?

1) Infinite fatigue makes ridiculously OP combos possible. The most obvious examples are PK zone attack spam (get hit by the first one and there's very little you can do if the PK is on point with cancelling the second attack and then immediately zone attacking again), and the PK sextuple stab which is GB -> triple stab - > revenge -> free GB -> triple stab (I've seen King Richard do this on his streams before, or something like this).
2) Revenge can make some moves knock opponents down. Warlord's head butt will knock people down during revenge, meaning he can continuously chain head butt into free heavy. Without someone else to spam GB on him, there is no way you can recover from a revenge head butt.
3) It can be saved to easily parry any attack and knock down your opponent, meaning that once someone gets revenge the only way to safely engage them is to throw them into hazards (which against a good player is nigh impossible to do).
4) Revenge encourages passive play as you gain more revenge from blocking and parrying as opposed to dealing damage (or receiving it). Once someone gets revenge, they can easily switch the tables at any time forcing the other player to simply back off. As such, For Honor devolves into constantly trying to bait out attacks so you can get more revenge from blocking/parrying their attack.
5) SFs super move does not make you lose the game on the spot if they land it. Revenge mode in For Honor will cause you to instantly lose the duel.

I can go on, but I think I've made my point. Revenge in 1v1 basically guarantees victory when used properly. You are well and truly being rewarded for being a brick wall and doing nothing but blocking attacks.

[Munktor]

1) Infinite fatigue makes ridiculously OP combos possible. The most obvious examples are PK zone attack spam (get hit by the first one and there's very little you can do if the PK is on point with cancelling the second attack and then immediately zone attacking again), and the PK sextuple stab which is GB -> triple stab - > revenge -> free GB -> triple stab (I've seen King Richard do this on his streams before, or something like this).
2) Revenge can make some moves knock opponents down. Warlord's head butt will knock people down during revenge, meaning he can continuously chain head butt into free heavy. Without someone else to spam GB on him, there is no way you can recover from a revenge head butt.
3) It can be saved to easily parry any attack and knock down your opponent, meaning that once someone gets revenge the only way to safely engage them is to throw them into hazards (which against a good player is nigh impossible to do).
4) Revenge encourages passive play as you gain more revenge from blocking and parrying as opposed to dealing damage (or receiving it). Once someone gets revenge, they can easily switch the tables at any time forcing the other player to simply back off. As such, For Honor devolves into constantly trying to bait out attacks so you can get more revenge from blocking/parrying their attack.
5) SFs super move does not make you lose the game on the spot if they land it. Revenge mode in For Honor will cause you to instantly lose the duel.

I can go on, but I think I've made my point. Revenge in 1v1 basically guarantees victory when used properly. You are well and truly being rewarded for being a brick wall and doing nothing but blocking attacks.

I don't really disagree with most of what you said, but I think it fails to acknowledge the major point.

Someone had to spam attacks at you in the duel that you successfully blocked and parried. They likely did not attempt many (if at all) feints or mind-games of any kind to try and trip you up and bust your shell open. They just continued to throw attacks into your guard and provide you with revenge gain.

I agree with the argument against revenge gain gear, but in 1v1 duels, if someone is generating revenge consistently against you - you probably allowed such to happen, and likely are not looking to improve your overall game, just relying on 1 "go-to" offensive strategy.

[Jobsalot]

Since the discussion focuses on the duels... hm. I can't say I mind it too much? I obviously understand why some people have issues with it, mainly due to the sudden stamina surge and all but again, a lot of this comes down to attitude when you play man against man. Or woman. Whatever.

I always see it as a challenge. Most duels I am in don't even make it to the point where revenge kicks in, when it does, usually neither player uses it (I did a few times by accident and when I panicked but I did not attack with it). If my opponent wants to do for it, sure. If he wins, then that means I haven't found a successful way yet to outplay him. Haven't taken enough distance from him or disengaged and waited for it to subside. Or I haven't successfully parried him enough or defended against his guard break.

My attitude mostly makes me look for the flaws in my gameplay because I would like to say one day that I have become a good player. And fighting against bad odds is imo part of becoming one. You only grow through overcoming obstacles.


So... I'm kinda indifferent on it, i guess? If they removed it it would be fine though because it does seem rather obsolete other than turning the game around in your favor in the last second. But then again, shouldn't one rather avoid letting it come to that anyway?

[Munktor]

Since the discussion focuses on the duels... hm. I can't say I mind it too much? I obviously understand why some people have issues with it, mainly due to the sudden stamina surge and all but again, a lot of this comes down to attitude when you play man against man. Or woman. Whatever.

I always see it as a challenge. Most duels I am in don't even make it to the point where revenge kicks in, when it does, usually neither player uses it (I did a few times by accident and when I panicked but I did not attack with it). If my opponent wants to do for it, sure. If he wins, then that means I haven't found a successful way yet to outplay him. Haven't taken enough distance from him or disengaged and waited for it to subside. Or I haven't successfully parried him enough or defended against his guard break.

My attitude mostly makes me look for the flaws in my gameplay because I would like to say one day that I have become a good player. And fighting against bad odds is imo part of becoming one. You only grow through overcoming obstacles.


So... I'm kinda indifferent on it, i guess? If they removed it it would be fine though because it does seem rather obsolete other than turning the game around in your favor in the last second. But then again, shouldn't one rather avoid letting it come to that anyway?

I wish we had more people like you in this community. My thoughts are nearly identical to yours. Especially the part I bolded.

Thanks for posting.

[Peligrad]

flaws in my gameplay

Is it a flaw in your game play? I would say no. It's a flaw in For Honor's gameplay.

If you want a good game, you should remove as many flaws as possible.

How I feel or react to the flaw is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme.

Ubisoft as a game developer should be actively seeking out and correcting flaws in their game play.

What frustrates me is that I see very little of that happening. And instead I see them adding a bunch of cosmetic cash grab merchandise when their game is clearly failing.

The steep decline in the player base strongly suggests that the game is flawed... not your game play,

[Jobsalot]

Is it a flaw in your game play? I would say no. It's a flaw in For Honor's gameplay.

Ubisoft as a game developer should be actively seeking out and correcting flaws in their game play.

What frustrates me is that I see very little of that happening. And instead I see them adding a bunch of cosmetic cash grab merchandise when their game is clearly failing.

The steep decline in the player base strongly suggests that the game is flawed... not your game play,

Okay? Great how you just made that decision for me without even knowing how and what I play. Are you perhaps a prophet?

[Peligrad]

Okay? Great how you just made that decision for me without even knowing how and what I play. Are you perhaps a prophet?

Bahahaha! Wow... what an incredibly stupid thing to say.

First off, no matter how you play you shouldn't be worrying about giving the other guy revenge in 1v1, period! Revenge as it was introduced to us in this game by Ubisoft was a mechanic that was supposed to even the odds when you are out numbered. So if it is triggering in a 1v1 for any reason then it is not working as intended.

Secondly, revenge is gained off blocks and getting hit. Being blocked is going to happen. A lot at higher levels of play. The defensive meta is already rough for trying to get damage in because of parry. So you are basically forced to use fast, low damage attacks in abundance if you want to kill the other guy eventually. More attacks means more blocked attacks and getting hit more times.

So saying you are doing it wrong for doing it the best way is just silly.

You can either go for big slow hits and get parried and just lose or go for an abundant amount of quick light hits and give the other guy revenge.

You literally have no other attacks that deal damage aside from GB which is easily countered as of the most recent patch.

Managing your opponent's revenge is also very difficult to do because there is no hud for monitoring this. If we are supposed to be expected to monitor something stupid like this, at least publish the rules behind it and give us a meter to watch.

So no... I'm not a prophet... I just understand the game and the proper way to play it and have identified the fact that there is no practical away around it.

I suppose you could just roll around for 2 minutes and let the other guy's revenge fade. That would be an awesome mechanic for a game right?

(That's sarcasm for the morons that seem rampant on these forums)

[TCTF_SWAT]

I rarely see it outside of PK mathes since bleed gives extra revenge

[Munktor]

Okay? Great how you just made that decision for me without even knowing how and what I play. Are you perhaps a prophet?

Honestly, don't bother with that guy. He just enjoys insulting and raging.