It's a Feature not a Bug !!! | Forums

[The_Mensan]

I don't mean it as a developer's joke; sometimes it's actually true!

Guys, stop calling everything a bug just because you haven't seen it. Feinting should be a "bug" since it's not in the basic/advanced tutorial... lol.

In a lot of advanced fighting games, mechanics are buried and discovered by the players. Think about games like CvS2 or MvC2 or SF series or Tekken series. Kara-cancel, Roll-cancel, jump-cancel... Are all viable and REAL game mechanics. Some of them are unintentional (such as roll-cancel for CvS2), but in the top level gaming, people are doing it and all skilled player knows how to do it properly.

Don't make this game a child's play. EMBRACE the advanced elements. In this particular case, I am talking about Kara-cancel. Why is everyone calling heavy -> zone attack kara-cancel a "zone attack bug"? What about the "soft feint" of light attacks here [1]? These are just kara-cancels, nothing special and they exist in almost every respectable fighting game.

If you don't understand that, go play Mario Kart, there's no kara-cancelling there.

[1] http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...-basic-attacks

[Felis_Menari]

The thing is, the devs haven't weighed in on this. Also, I have tried replicating basic attack feinting, but I plain and simply can't. The timing must be so tight that it only works in a single frame, seemingly. If it is an intended feature, why is it so difficult? Clearly For Honor is not designed with difficult control inputs in mind (which is one of the reasons why I like it), so this basic attack feinting *does* seem like a bug. And hidden game mechanics are a giant, seething, steaming pile of crap. Hiding specific character moves from their move list or not making known something that can impact gameplay is a **** move. And if I could perform this alternate feinting method, its impact on my gameplay would be far from subtle. Kinda silly for a "hidden game mechanic".

[Gojema]

I go with: if a known bug survives 2 major patchs it's a feature not a bug. Maybe those indicator bugs are indeed intended as advanced techs. We don't know, there haven't been 2 major patches yet ..

[The_Mensan]

The thing is, the devs haven't weighed in on this. Also, I have tried replicating basic attack feinting, but I plain and simply can't. The timing must be so tight that it only works in a single frame, seemingly. If it is an intended feature, why is it so difficult? Clearly For Honor is not designed with difficult control inputs in mind (which is one of the reasons why I like it), so this basic attack feinting *does* seem like a bug. And hidden game mechanics are a giant, seething, steaming pile of crap. Hiding specific character moves from their move list or not making known something that can impact gameplay is a **** move. And if I could perform this alternate feinting method, its impact on my gameplay would be far from subtle. Kinda silly for a "hidden game mechanic".

Silly or not, intended or not... It doesn't stop it from being a game mechanic. That's the entire reason of my post. Read every game I listed and their meta and you will understand.

These kind of things are NOT unique. That's why THEY HAVE NAMES. Lol... Kara-cancel isn't invented by Ubisoft for For Honor. Most fighting games have it. It's the product of input buffer. All smooth fighting game need or have these kind of thing and NOT A SINGLE fighting game developer had ever "patched a discovered kara-cancel"...

Obviously, in today's world, SF and Tekken probably coded the game with Cancels in mind, they are now SEASONED fighting game developers. New game might accidentally have gems like "kara-cancel" in game but if the developers are not aware of them, might treat them like "bugs". Can you imagine CvS2 without Roll-Cancel? Or MvC2 without Super-Jump Cancel? Those games would never reach EVO status and be as big as they got.

For Honor has a pretty robust fighting system right now, it actually appears a lot more complex than it originally sound (with different guard speed, hitstun, links, chains, combos and now cancels). This is no longer a teenagers button smashing game. It's becoming a real fighting game! The next thing we know, we will have published framerates and then we can all do frame-traps and 2-frame link combos !

[Felis_Menari]

Silly or not, intended or not... It doesn't stop it from being a game mechanic. That's the entire reason of my post. Read every game I listed and their meta and you will understand.

These kind of things are NOT unique. That's why THEY HAVE NAMES. Lol... Kara-cancel isn't invented by Ubisoft for For Honor. Most fighting games have it. It's the product of input buffer. All smooth fighting game need or have these kind of thing and NOT A SINGLE fighting game developer had ever "patched a discovered kara-cancel"...

Obviously, in today's world, SF and Tekken probably coded the game with Cancels in mind, they are now SEASONED fighting game developers. New game might accidentally have gems like "kara-cancel" in game but if the developers are not aware of them, might treat them like "bugs". Can you imagine CvS2 without Roll-Cancel? Or MvC2 without Super-Jump Cancel? Those games would never reach EVO status and be as big as they got.

For Honor has a pretty robust fighting system right now, it actually appears a lot more complex than it originally sound (with different guard speed, hitstun, links, chains, combos and now cancels). This is no longer a teenagers button smashing game. It's becoming a real fighting game! The next thing we know, we will have published framerates and then we can all do frame-traps and 2-frame link combos !

If it's going to be an accepted game mechanic, then guard speeds need to be equalized and sped up, and this nigh impossible (at least on Xbone) to perform bug (I'm calling it such until devs speak on the matter) needs to be made as easy to perform as any normal feint, with feint visuals added. If this bug cannot be altered in this manner, then the devs should do their best to crush it with the fury of a thousand sume

[Felis_Menari]

*suns, fecking typo. I would edit, but doing that on my phone deletes the message automatically.

[The_Mensan]

If it's going to be an accepted game mechanic, then guard speeds need to be equalized and sped up, and this nigh impossible (at least on Xbone) to perform bug (I'm calling it such until devs speak on the matter) needs to be made as easy to perform as any normal feint, with feint visuals added. If this bug cannot be altered in this manner, then the devs should do their best to crush it with the fury of a thousand sume

Did you know that when I walk and then quickly tap L2, my heroes goes into Guard? Did you know I can taunt and then press a direction to cancel the taunt and then taunt again? Does the developer need to comment on these to make sure they are not bugs?

Input buffer that's the mechanic. It's not an accident. Every fighting game has it. What you are seeing is the RESULT of the input buffer being used. It's virtually impossible to say it's a bug because it's simply part of the game like... walking or guarding. What should the game do if you press a button and then press a combination of buttons to do something else? How do you dodge into dodge-attack if you don't have input buffer? How will anyone ever perform a zone attack since no humans can press both buttons within the same nanosecond.

Input buffer is what makes fighting games smooth and "possible". Kara-cancel is the result of it. Just like in real life when you say... Do a jump shot to extend the range of your basketball shot. Is it A BUG? OMFG FIX !? No, it's called using your body, it's the same thing here. I tried to attack, then I switch my attack quickly from another direction. You can actually cancel normal lights or even GBs the same way.

You can't possibly call it a "bug" anymore than you can call quickly cancelling a walk into a guard to be "a bug". I thought he was walking but then BAM he guards and blocks my attack, please fix, kthxbai !

Kara Cancel is a part of the normal game mechanic and most fighting games EMBRACE it. Just get used to it.

[Mr_Gallows]

Lol you can give it all the fancy names you want, but kara cancel is not balanced for this game 😄

[The_Mensan]

Lol you can give it all the fancy names you want, but kara cancel is not balanced for this game ��

I don't think you comprehend the post... Kara Cancel is a mechanic. You can't even really stop it without messing up the game completely. It's a result of the input buffer. If you can cancel a sprint into a guard and cancel a side motion into a dodge and a dodge into a dodge attack, THEN YOU MUST BE ABLE to Kara Cancel. That's pretty much it. It's not about the name. If you can't understand the post, don't comment on it, lol...

The only fix would be to drastically shorten or remove input buffer, which would make the game incredibly blocky. Your dodge would not work 80% of the time because you pressed <-- 3 nanoseconds before X. Your dodge attack would come out because you pressed R1 5 nanoseconds after your --> and X (which you lucky pressed on the same time, praises the Gods). Do you have any idea how input buffer works and WHY it's essential to fighting games?

[Felis_Menari]

Did you know that when I walk and then quickly tap L2, my heroes goes into Guard? Did you know I can taunt and then press a direction to cancel the taunt and then taunt again? Does the developer need to comment on these to make sure they are not bugs?

Input buffer that's the mechanic. It's not an accident. Every fighting game has it. What you are seeing is the RESULT of the input buffer being used. It's virtually impossible to say it's a bug because it's simply part of the game like... walking or guarding. What should the game do if you press a button and then press a combination of buttons to do something else? How do you dodge into dodge-attack if you don't have input buffer? How will anyone ever perform a zone attack since no humans can press both buttons within the same nanosecond.

Input buffer is what makes fighting games smooth and "possible". Kara-cancel is the result of it. Just like in real life when you say... Do a jump shot to extend the range of your basketball shot. Is it A BUG? OMFG FIX !? No, it's called using your body, it's the same thing here. I tried to attack, then I switch my attack quickly from another direction. You can actually cancel normal lights or even GBs the same way.

You can't possibly call it a "bug" anymore than you can call quickly cancelling a walk into a guard to be "a bug". I thought he was walking but then BAM he guards and blocks my attack, please fix, kthxbai !

Kara Cancel is a part of the normal game mechanic and most fighting games EMBRACE it. Just get used to it.

That's a lot of words for simply saying "This is the way I prefer it to be, and why.". But the part where your argument for this bug to remain untouched falls apart is where you use "Because it's in other fighting games!" to support your reasoning. The problem is, it does diddly squat. You also didn't address the issue of ease of use for this bug. If it's virtually impossible to do (basically requiring perfect single frame timing), it's garbage and not worth keeping (at least in its current form).