"Not Good enough to even be cheap" | Forums

[Alba_Gu-Brath]

yes, an actual insult that was thrown at me. Got into a duel and the first thing that happens the warden throws me off a ledge. I say lets not start with that lameness, then the cheap shoulder charges and stun locks begin, peppered with "you just suck, you are horrible, you cant play" mind you this is half way through the second round and i was mercilessly thrown off a ledge before any hits were exchanged in the first round. other player wins after continuing to tell me how horrible i am at the game and as the valk i have a wide range of unblockable trips to use and "you arent even good enough to be cheap". i dont spam those attacks but use them sparingly and situationally. Maybe im old school, maybe my definition of "good" isnt inline with the mainstream definition, but ive always thought that if you were cheap, it wasnt because you were skilled or talented, but rather you were the opposite. I main as a valk and try very hard not to do the lame shield bash leg sweep stun lock combos repeatedly and endlessly. it happens in those specific situations where appropriate but its not a main staple of my tactics.

I offer this story to ask for discussion, civil and constructive please. Does being cheap, or abusing cheap, unblockable disable comboes make a player "good"? Does utilizing a classes entire toolbox with effectiveness make a player "good"? in the end does it even matter so long as the kills are up, the deaths are down and your order is done?

Also, to be clear this isnt a complaint. Personally i find enjoyment in trying to find solutions to these cheap tactics so i can improve my play and get better at the game. Also im not that bad at playing this game either, im elite pro either.I have good rounds and bad, im better against some players and styles and horrible against others. But not good enough to be cheap? thats just strange

[ParadigmFringe]

what makes a player "good" is their ability to adapt. if those strings work for you, use them, but sometimes they WILL NOT work, and it's those times you learn if you're really good or not. when you dig deep and get your feints and your unblockables and your defense all clicking and you mix it up so hard that the other guy just can't get their bearings. THAT is skill.
if you had used your unblockable strings and that guy had folded like a cheap lawnchair, the ONLY thing that would be certain is that the other guy is bad. it wouldn't make you cheap. it wouldn't make you unskilled.

for the record, ignore the hate. i don't understand why people send demeaning messages like that when they SHOULD be offering encouragement or tips to make the community better.

[Kharneth88]

Spamming cheap attacks does not make you good or mean that you are good. It also does not mean that you are bad. A very skilled player can spam cheap combos and win matches. What defines a skilled player is that they don't rely on those cheap tricks.

A player who is good or skilled is able to come out victorious in a number of situations. So, I say, the definition of a skilled player is one who can adapt to the situation, whether that be the map, the enemy, or the game mode, and will defeat their enemy with whatever it takes.

Now, just because a player beats you and you're skilled doesn't mean that the enemy is skilled, too. Sometimes they win do to luck or an advantageous situation, but if they win very often and in a number of various situations, that is when you can be sure that they are skilled.

I've won battles before because I clicked the wrong button. lol. That doesn't make me skilled.

[lionardudu]

Spamming an attack when it works dont make you cheap... you are using your class ability

Its when you keep spamming an attack that get contered and you keep spamming cause you dont know to do nothing else, make you cheap XD

Why the hell i have to stop a combo if it works .... just to dont do the same skill 2 time in a row ???!

If my enemy fall 2 time in the same moves then why dont try a third ?!

If dont fall anymore change and get him surprise XD

Better than just look eachothers XD

[Kharneth88]

Spamming an attack when it works dont make you cheap... you are using your class ability

I completely disagree. Spamming attacks is almost the definition of cheap. There really aren't many ways to be cheap other than spamming an attack chain that is tough to get out of or avoid.

[Munktor]

"Good" refers to results/performance within the context of this discussion.

"Results" are dictated by a comparison of performance from both parties within a contest and the outcome from said comparisons.

"Performance" is a measure and evaluation of each contender's ability to manipulate the various mechanics within said contest.

Understanding all of the above, YES, using what some may deem "cheap tactics" effectively to have a positive result would be considered being a good player.

Especially when said "cheap tactics" can be stopped by someone with a higher level of performance.

[ParadigmFringe]

I completely disagree. Spamming attacks is almost the definition of cheap. There really aren't many ways to be cheap other than spamming an attack chain that is tough to get out of or avoid.

seeing as there is no attack or string in the game that is unavoidable, i fail to see how this is relevant in the current discussion. GOOD PLAYERS will still ledge lowbies for kicks. that doesn't make them bad. if anything it's just lazy.

bad is getting stuffed by the same thing over and over and not learning from it. the only real way to know if you're "good" is to come up against something that usually stuffs you and overcome it.

[Munktor]

the only real way to know if you're "good" is to come up against something that usually stuffs you and overcome it.

This is what I tell people all the time with games. You don't improve by beating people your level or worse than you. You improve by identifying why people better than you win and coming up with ways to stop it, and then effectively executing such. THAT is improvement, and THAT is a sign of a good player.

[Kharneth88]

seeing as there is no attack or string in the game that is unavoidable, i fail to see how this is relevant in the current discussion. GOOD PLAYERS will still ledge lowbies for kicks. that doesn't make them bad. if anything it's just lazy.

bad is getting stuffed by the same thing over and over and not learning from it. the only real way to know if you're "good" is to come up against something that usually stuffs you and overcome it.

I never said unavoidable. I said tough to get out of or avoid. Being cheap is when you do an attack chain over and over again intentionally knowing it is very hard to get out of or avoid. I am a fairly skilled Peacekeeper player, but I'll also light attack spam the slow classes if I can get away with it. If you read my first comment you'll see I said exactly what you said and are saying. A good player may still use cheap tricks, but using cheap tricks doesn't mean you are good. Both good players and bad players can use cheap tricks. Even good players can get stuck in cheap tricks and be unable to avoid them. A good player, however, will not be tricked by the cheap tactics for long. It only takes a couple days before those tricks rarely ever work on them again.

I've overcome every challenge in this game except for peacekeeper light attacks with the Raider. But I just started playing the Raider two days ago. My first couple days of Peacekeeper I couldn't kill any Kensei. Now I can wreck their faces in no time. I'm sure by the end of the weekend I'll be good to go.

[lionardudu]

I completely disagree. Spamming attacks is almost the definition of cheap. There really aren't many ways to be cheap other than spamming an attack chain that is tough to get out of or avoid.

So if you are unable to block a chain i have to stop to use it cause you dont know how to play ?

If you react to that i change and try to overcome your defence, but if you dont defend i have to stop cause you are a bad player ?

Its a competitive game afterall, if you fall in "cheap" tactics isnt the fault of the player that use it its yours..

A bad player keep using the same tactics and if you conter it you wreak him XD

a good player change if one dont works and try something else :P