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The vector is awesome. Plus after experimentation the AK seems to have about the same effective damage as the other assault rifles aside from the mk 17. 2 shots to kill the unarmoured grunts and about 4 shots to kill the armored grunts(the base enemies in 3 or 4-5 star provinces). Certain configurations of other assault rifles might do better against armoured targets, which penetration seems to dictate howith many shots it takes to kill someone more than power.
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think it is cos to get your country flag apart from USA you have to pay for them.Originally Posted by Rad357 Go to original post
think they said something like you are the USA army so you get the USA flag free. i am sure people E.G from the UK have moved to the USA and in the USA Army. yes they prob wear the USA flag. but still.
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Ok for one the real AK-47 is not a great gun, the reason it was so prolific was one the Russians sold a metric ton of the guns and it was cheap to make do to the large amount of stamping the gun used and because of that its parts fit loosely allowing it to function with much more build up of dirt and such then most western guns would tolerate. It was also relatively easy break down for maintenance. But do to stamped parts it was less accurate then most western guns and on top of that the 7.62 x 39 is also a poor round. To large for its powder charge compared to lets say a 7.62x51 nato round. Another thing is the tumbling on a 7.62x39 makes very inaccurate at range compared to the 5.56x45 nato round, the 5.56 maintains better accuracy and striking power at range do to its much higher velocity 2400fps vs 3100fps. Only at shorter ranges does the large AK round perform adequately at longer ranges it becomes more of a suppressive fire weapon then a rifle. This was by design though as Russian war doctrine was to have mass formations of infantry firing there weapons in a general direction of the enemy while advancing. It was designed for assaulting a position not for its innate accuracy compared to Nato designs that were designed to be much more accurate at range keeping more in line with a rifle accuracy.
Now in game all guns including suppressed pistols will one shot kill even at times at long range.. such as in the 70 to 100 meter range with a pistol will 1 shot kill most target. BUT.. when the enemy is alerted many guns can take 2 or more hits to kill a target. In 5 star areas a unsurprised Tar-21 can take upto 5 rounds on some targets to bring down if they are alerted. The AI get a damage resistance buff or more health when alerted vs unalerted and until you get advanced suppresser unlock I would recommend if you are spotted to remove the suppresser as after you are spotted the silencer is pretty point less if your going to maintain contact with the enemy.
What I run is a silenced suppressed sniper rifle, Tar-21 with a compensator and a silenced pistol.. use the suppressed sniper rifle to clear as many before entering a compound then using the suppressed pistol when I move it so finish clearing unless I have alerted the guards with the sniping (such as they found a body) if that has happened then I use the Tar as being stealthy doesn't matter and I want to most range, damage and penetration on the weapon.
In the end its a game.. after all if they were really modeling things with real world weapons and attachments.. suppressed weapons would have better ballistic performance, would still be detectable from further out using rifiles unless using sub sonic ammunition which would lower range and damage of the weapons and many other things that are not taken into account.. such as most of the assault rifles use 30 round mags but in game some standard with 20 or camo having no effect.. you can be in a ghillie suit hundreds of meters away or wear a flaming pink out fit with a neon sign on your head saying shoot here and to the AI it doesn't matter... and do to that you just go with the understanding its just a game its not trying to be a simulator.
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Well this statement is 100% inaccurate....Originally Posted by cjf_92 Go to original post
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In what way. In regards to terminal balistics bullet tumbling is phenomenon you generally see with light bullets, like 5.56 Nato and 5.45x39mm, at about 2700 fpsOriginally Posted by Old_Mufasa Go to original post
Senior Member
No.. every bullet tumbles. The issue with lighter vs heavy rounds is when it starts to tumble how much of its ballistics are effected. A 7.62X39 is larger and slower meaning air dynamics on the round are poorer over range. The 5.56x45 Is much faster and smaller meaning it is not slowed as fast and will do more damage to flesh do to velocity and cavitation then a 7.62x39. This is why the Russians switched to a 5.45x39 round.Originally Posted by cjf_92 Go to original post
Also there are many myths around the 5.56 and its "tumbling" and that has to do with the first M-16 and AR-15 rifles. The first 5.56 rifles only had a 1:14 twist in the rifling vs modern rifles that use a 1:7 meaning the first 5.56 rifles in the 60's the ballistics of the 5.56 rounds were squirrely to say the least. This is where the talk about hitting a target in the lower stomach but the exit would be out of the top of the shoulder came from. It also made the gun inaccurate at long ranges. When they increased the rifling to 1:7 it fixed the trajectory of the round making it extremely accurate and most modern 5.56 rifles have this rifling.
I'm not saying the AK-47 is a horrible weapon.. at the time it came out it was great gun for its era.. but to think that a gun designed just after WW2 is going to compare vs newer designs.. well that's just mainly nostalgia over the weapon system..as even the host country of the gun has moved on to more modern designed rounds.
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OP and were referring to the tumbling that only occurs after a bullet hits something aka terminal ballistics, not tumbling that occurs mid air as the result of an unstable bullet. Sub sonic 7.62x39 mm rounds are more likely to deflect than they are to tumble once they enter the body. But the cavitation from 5.56 Nato rounds is the result of the bullet hitting the target and then slowing down and tumbling, and possibly even fragmenting. FMJ 5.56 Nato rounds have actually been proven to penetrate less than 9mm against soft targets like people and dry dry wall but more effect in penetrating hard targets like body armor and metalOriginally Posted by Old_Mufasa Go to original post
Senior Member
That is not true at all.. I don't know where you getting your information only way a 9mm is out penetrating a 5.56 is if they 5.56 is using hollow point or soft point rounds.. its not beating a FMJ ball round or FMJ AP rounds.. Also pistol tests are done at near point blank range.. take that same 9mm round and even with a rifle barrel it performance would be piss poor out side of 100 metersOriginally Posted by cjf_92 Go to original post
Two interior test walls were constructed using a wood 2x4 frame with standard drywall board attached to both sides. Two exterior test walls were made using wooden frames with drywall board attached to one side and exterior grade T1-11 wooden siding attached on the other (exterior) side. R-19 fiberglass insulation batting (Dow Coming) was stapled inside the two exterior test wails. To maintain test medium consistency, no wooden cross beams, electrical fixtures, conduits, or electrical wiring were placed in any of the test walls.
The test walls were placed in the following sequence to mimic shots fired from. inside a building, through two internal rooms, out the building, and into another similarly constructed building:
A. Interior wall #1 was placed 8 feet from the shooting position.
B. Interior wail #2 was placed 8 feet beyond interior wall #1.
C. Exterior wall #1 was placed 8 feet beyond interior wail #2. (Exterior side facing away from the shooter.)
D. Exterior wall #2 was placed 15 feet beyond exterior wall #1. (Exterior side facing toward the shooter.)
All calibers tested were fired from a position 8 feet in front of interior wall #l, so the bullet trajectory would travel in sequence through each of the succeeding test walls.
9mm 147gr Win JHP 948 fps Captured in exterior wall #2
9mm 147 gr Win JHP 1004 fps Exited exterior wall #2
.223 (5.56) 55 gr Fed FMJ ball 2956 fps Exited exterior wall #2
.223 (5.56) 55 gr Rem SP 3019 fps Captured in exterior wall #2
.223 (5.56) 55 gr Fed JHP 3012 fps Captured in exterior wall #2
As you can see with the above test the FMJ ball round with right through both walls.. only the Soft Point and Hollow point 5.56mm did not.. and they are designed not to over penetrate. As far as Terminal Ballistics again the 5.56mm vs a 7.62x39 the 5.56 with cause more tissue damage do to it speed. I'm referring to standard military issued FMJ rounds not specialty rounds like AP or SP or JP rounds as that totally changes values for both guns. As I stated before the reason the Russians.. the designers of the AK-47 and 7.62x39 round switched to the 5.45x39 was do to the poorer performance of the 7.62x39 rounds in ballistics and terminal ballistics vs higher speed smaller rounds.
and yes a 7.62x39 maybe able to chew through a cinder block wall faster at 100 meters then 5.56 and 5.45 rounds but the later will be able to kill person more effectively out to 500+ yards then a 7.62x39 round will and in the end.. that's all that matters when designing and fielding a weapon system.. There are better guns for dealing with people hard cover compared to the 7.62x39's, 5.56 or 5.45's.. such as battle rifles 7.62x51 or greater, LMG's and HMG's.
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yeah some guns are underpowered, its easy to fix they just have to adjust the values, but that will depend if the devs are lazy if not then we will have a gun patch in near future.Originally Posted by oVoPicasso Go to original post
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That's some pretty slow 9mm and it's jacketed hollow points. 9mm fmj will likely penetrate walls and people better because it's not dumping all its energy in gel jhp 9mm penetrates more than 5.56 FMJ because 5.56 swaps ends and fragments while 9mm generally stays together. And there is no point in comparing them at 100 yards because you don't generally shoot people at 100 yards with 9mm.
As for long range there have been reports of 5.56 having pretty poor performance because muzzle velocity becomes so low that the bullet just zips right though, without cavitation. At that point 7.62x39mm would likely do more damage. But up until late then there is definitely a strong argument of the stopping power of those lighter faster round.
Also keep in mind hard target penetration is not the same as soft target penetration. Or even penetration against cars or other objects. 5.56 Nato will likely penetrate body armor because it's just going so fast. But through a car 7.62x39 will likely penetrate better because it has more mass and momentum. Same applies to soft targets like people and walls. But the real reason everyone switched to lighter rounds is because it's easier to carry more rounds of amunition.
But anyways the depiction of the ak47 in game is probably realistic. It's got high damage but poor penetration against amour. If it takes more rounds to kill against armoured targets that's probably why.
