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Here is a summary of how the different match ups for the Lawbringer look like.
There are under the condition that the players are able to counter every guard break and not falling for baits/feints.
Also that the players are able to block or parry attacks and don't get any "free" dmg by missing either of those.
Also there is safe dmg some classes can get, i.e. Warden hitting a Shoulder Bash.
It's basically a no risk move that can result in dmg, but is not punishable by a Lawbringer.
Lawbringer himself has no safe dmg moves.
He only has a guaranteed dmg move if he manages to parry a light attack, which is a difficult high risk - high reward move.
Against a Warden, Conquerer and Warlord it's not possible to win if they play decently.
The only easy match ups for a Lawbringer are vs. a Raider and a Nobushi.
Warden:
Worst Case: Warden goes for nothing else but shoulder bash.
Win Condition: None, best you can get is a tie if you manage to roll away from all shoulder bashes.
Difficulty: Hard and not winnable
Conquerer:
Worst Case: Conquerer goes for nothing else but shield bash.
Win Condition: None, best you can get is a tie if you manage to roll away from all shoulder bashes.
Difficulty: Hard and not winnable
Peacekeeper:
Worst case: Peacekeeper does 1-2 light attacks into zone attack or guard break.
Win condition for Lawbringer: Parry light attacks.
Difficulty: Hard and unlikely to win
Raider:
Worst case: No real worst case.
Win condition: parry enough attacks and you win.
Difficulty: Easy
Warlord:
Worst case: only headbutt into light attack.
Win condition: None and too fast to really dodge away from all the time will result in loss.
Difficulty: Hard and not winnable
Berserker:
Worst case: Light attack mixup
Win condition: Parry light attacks
Difficulty: Hard and unlikely to win.
Valkyrie:
Worst case: Light attack mixup into sweep
Win condition: parry light attacks
Difficulty: Hard and unlikely to win
Kensei:
Worst case: Mixup of top light and dash attacks.
Win condition: Parry either of those.
Difficulty: Medium
Orochi:
Worst case: Top light and zone attack only
Win Condition: Parry top lights, block zone attack and guard break.
Difficulty: Hard and unlikely to win
Shoguki:
Worst case: No real worst case.
Win condition: parry enough attacks and don't dash when they have hyper armor (free gb for Shoguki)
Difficulty: Medium
Nobushi:
Worst case: Light and zone attack mixup.
Win condition: Block zone attack, parry light attacks.
Difficulty: Easy
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Other than that, the list seems pretty spot on. Of course it will always come down to playerskill. I'm a decent LB with 80% winrate and I can take on most opponents, but if we compared equally skilled players, the LB will fall short most of the time.
But it also accured to me, that a lot of Lawbringers have trouble utilizing his full kit. They don't feint to bait parries. They don't throw ppl into walls to guarantee the top heavy for the daze effect. His potential is really well hidden and not easy to discover. He's still trash tier though.
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Originally Posted by Klaziknadi Go to original post
Yes, and to be honest I didn't know the wall throw was a guaranteed top heavy until watching a few videos on the Lawbringer by Spliced, nor did I really consider the merits of cancelling certain heavy attacks in a chain (particularly the unblockables) to bait out the parry...
That said I only really have access to the game one or two days at week at best due to a busy schedule and even then other games my mates play usually drag me away. That said I can't want until this weekend to test some of these out. Never had altogether that much trouble fighting enemies as the lawbringer... all I need to practice now is the guard break interrupt.
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Definitely agree on Valk, WL and Warden being unwinable if they spam. LB has absolutely no answer to those kind of ****. Other classes can be easily or hard won depending on the opponent's skill. But those 3 have combo that is super easy to do, it's like a I win button against LB.
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Here's a few points, I agree with some of these, but of course no player is completely perfect and won't be able to predict your moves enough to avoid certain guard breaks (such as if they dodge)
Warden: Not the easiest matchup, but still possible. Just bait the zone attack or learn to bait the overhead light for a parry. You can usually stop the vortex pretty quickly by using your overhead light, since it's actually one of the top 5 fastest moves in the game believe it or not. If they use their zone, block it and guard break after (But DON'T shove him, you have to wait a second after the block) because he's vulnerable and can't counter the guard break. Your guard should always be to the left against a warden in case he does that, since his zone is a few frames faster than his overhead light, so it's harder to predict especially since he can use it in any block direction.
Warlord: There's really not much anyone can do against a warlord at the moment, so don't feel bad. Smart ones will not completely spam headbutt, but use it a lot in between attacks and feints for chip damage. Add on to that his parry timing is weird since his heavy attacks are slower than they seem. It's possible to dodge the headbutt if you dodge right before he uses it, but that's not a reliable way to win since it's almost impossible to predict a headbutt unless he's just spamming it.
Conquerer: You can actually mess with conquerers pretty easy with your overhead light, and if they're spamming their shield bash (which they will. It's the only viable way to play conquerer) just be ready to guard break them. I can catch conquerers pretty consistently, but make sure you don't get backed into a corner or you'll get destroyed. Dodge to the side opposite the side they dash before their shield bash, unless they dodge forward, then just dodge either way. You have to have pretty good reflexes to predict it, but after they realize you know what to do they'll start dodging and using guard breaks, so when you dodge be really to use shove since you can't get grabbed while using it.
Valkyrie: Yes she got buffed, yes she's strong, but really all they did was make her faster and flow a bit better. Sometimes it's best to just eat the first light attack and parry the second, since it'll give you a lot of damage with your overhead unblockable. Lawbringer really doesn't struggle against spear characters because most of their damage and combos come from light attacks, which if you parry them can really strike fear into your opponents.
As a little side note: Lawbringer is being heavily looked at by the devs right now according to their last Twitch broadcast, so we may see some of his strengths be improved and some of his weaknesses balanced. Although I've been very successful with him even in duels, it's because my skills with the basic mechanics of the game are extremely good. I switched to playing berzerker lately and my skills transferred over and I've been a menace to anyone because I'm so good at parrying. Lawbringer, because he's so difficult to truly learn and he forces you to learn the basic mechanics very strongly, he's a good learning character but until they buff him or fix stuff in general he's not viable enough for decent play.
The issue is that he doesn't have anything unique, and the only viable way to play him is to do stuff that every single class can do: Parrying and retaliating, or guard breaks. That's not a fun way to play, and it's super predictable.
He's fun as hell though, especially when you max throw distance and just chuck people into walls/spikes/fire/death
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It's not about average players and how to counter them.
I wanted to summarize what the strongest moves and combos are a class can put on the table against a Lawbringer and what he can do to defend against it.
And there are combos you can't do anything about, which I see as problematic.
The average Warden and even the average Warlord will not spam shoulderbash/headbutt only, but if they do you can't win.
Same thing against a Conquerer, if he shield bashes only he can turn every match into at least a tie.
When I say a matchup is hard and unlikely to be won, what I mean is you have to have reaction times of 200ms or less, whereas you opponent just needs to switch guard and throw stuff at you.
This makes it heavily unfavored for you.
There is also tactics I am not considering, like throwing top heavies at maximum distance against a pk, which can work quite nicely.
