Pretty much ruined the game with this patch. | Forums

[MinaX-LorD]

Smh... so the new patch hit ps4 and now you can just stand there and spam guard break and constantly get the counter lmfao. This is so sad. This is a great game that is being ruined by crying scrubs and bad judgement on the devs part. I hope they start listening to the people who actually put time into this game and like to acknowledge balance rather than just nerfing everything and making the game so simple that a 5 year old can play.

No joke, two people stand in front of each other and just spam GB and it is an endless guard break cancel. I'm pretty sure that trying to light attack in this situation to break the cycle would probably get you punished with MOST characters. Maybe not Peace Keeper, but definitely someone like Nobushi. I predicted this happening in so many threads last week.

I'm kind of upset because I don't want to quit playing this game. It is the most fun I've had with a game in years, but the decisions they are making are driving this game down hill very quickly. I dropped 100 dollars on For Honor, but if something doesn't change soon, this will be the last chance I give for a UBIsoft game. Hadn't bought one since Watch Dogs 1 and now I'm slowly being reminded why.

So now, like we have all been fearing, guard breaks are pretty much useless, so now lets see the defensive sidestep mixup meta truly take off. Hopefully we can make it toxic enough that they will actually implement a GOOD change to the guard break system.

[Ezcendant]

Haven't had a chance to play the new patch yet (I'm totally not pretending to work while actually looking at game forums) but if you know someone is going to guard break and press to escape before it confirms thus escaping what's the problem? With the now old version most people failed to escape because they were pressing it too early and the game was essentially punishing them for their fast reflexes and not learning the counter-intuitive system.

[MinaX-LorD]

Haven't had a chance to play the new patch yet (I'm totally not pretending to work while actually looking at game forums) but if you know someone is going to guard break and press to escape before it confirms thus escaping what's the problem? With the now old version most people failed to escape because they were pressing it too early and the game was essentially punishing them for their fast reflexes and not learning the counter-intuitive system.

The problem is that having reflexes that are "too fast" isn't an excuse lol. Execution is a core in any game, and you need to learn not to push things too early or too late, or else, you just failed to successfully perform an action. Thats the point of learning how moves work, and timing.

The problem is now, there is a HUGE GAPING window to press the button, so now, people pretty much will NEVER get guard broken anymore. It is impossible to miss the timing unless you are just mentally ******ed. Many people, like myself, learned the previous timing and guard beaks were no problem. They were essentially no threat before, now they are even more irrelevant, and this doesn't help the state of the combat system, or the flow of the game. This rewards defensive play more, and soon, if you leave it up to the scrubs, you will be able to counter guard breaks out of dodge animations, recovery animations, etc...

The scrubs in this game want guard break to be a useless mechanic that can never punish them, and that is what is going to put the dagger in this game for good.

[Ezcendant]

The problem is that having reflexes that are "too fast" isn't an excuse lol. Execution is a core in any game, and you need to learn not to push things too early or too late, or else, you just failed to successfully perform an action. Thats the point of learning how moves work, and timing..

Except that's not really how gbing worked. Going from beta to live I had a LOT of issues learning the new timing. On the advanced practice dummies the shield icon would pop-up and you actually had to wait for half a second or more until it was almost faded out completely before you could break out. That's just moronic. For someone like me that parries based on when I'm about to be hit, I don't watch the easy mode QTE icons, the old GB system was terribly designed. I'd see someone about to grab me and react, which would then fail because I had to instead wait an arbitrary amount of time AFTER I was grabbed before I could break it. Eventually I learned the correct timing, but it took a lot of effort to learn what was essentially a badly designed system.

Now you could argue that the animations don't matter and that you should only care about and learn the timings, but that's counter-intuitive and changing it so everything works on the same visual system is the best solution.

The problem is now, there is a HUGE GAPING window to press the button, so now, people pretty much will NEVER get guard broken anymore. It is impossible to miss the timing unless you are just mentally ******ed. Many people, like myself, learned the previous timing and guard beaks were no problem. They were essentially no threat before, now they are even more irrelevant

So what you're saying is that this change doesn't affect top tier gameplay (since they could already escape gbs "no problem" at that level) and low tier players will need to learn to rely on something other than gb spam? Seems like a win to me.

The scrubs in this game want guard break to be a useless mechanic that can never punish them, and that is what is going to put the dagger in this game for good.

But like you said, high level players could already escape gbs reliably so this doesn't affect how the game is "meant to be played" at all. It just makes it less throw spammy for beginners.

[DrExtrem]

The original guard break mechanic was an overly simple "i-win button" for 95% of the players. The player, who pressed first, won (ledge situations) or got a huge advantage.

Now, the counter is not easier to use but less random AND the counter GB can now be used out of an animation. I consider it a fix, that promotes more fluent gameplay.

With the changes, the intelligent use of GB is the key - in fact, good timing and mindful fighting is promoted, because uncontrolled guard breaking without effect only drains your stamina.

In addition, the game is way more playable for the majority of players and it should become less spammy (gb-wise). Now, a mindless GB can actually kill you. Yesterday, I had a duel with a nobushi (me : PK). She wanted to gb me on a bridge. I countered and the pushback from the counter ledge-killed her. It was basically suicide.

[MinaX-LorD]

Except that's not really how gbing worked. Going from beta to live I had a LOT of issues learning the new timing. On the advanced practice dummies the shield icon would pop-up and you actually had to wait for half a second or more until it was almost faded out completely before you could break out. That's just moronic. For someone like me that parries based on when I'm about to be hit, I don't watch the easy mode QTE icons, the old GB system was terribly designed. I'd see someone about to grab me and react, which would then fail because I had to instead wait an arbitrary amount of time AFTER I was grabbed before I could break it. Eventually I learned the correct timing, but it took a lot of effort to learn what was essentially a badly designed system.

Now you could argue that the animations don't matter and that you should only care about and learn the timings, but that's counter-intuitive and changing it so everything works on the same visual system is the best solution.



So what you're saying is that this change doesn't affect top tier gameplay (since they could already escape gbs "no problem" at that level) and low tier players will need to learn to rely on something other than gb spam? Seems like a win to me.



But like you said, high level players could already escape gbs reliably so this doesn't affect how the game is "meant to be played" at all. It just makes it less throw spammy for beginners.

1.The way it worked was that you waited and timed it so that you were countering it right as you were being hit, which was simple for anyone who knows how to study and learn something. For people who are afraid of change and/or had no will to learn though? Yes, I suppose it was impossible to perform a simple counter guard break for them. You had about 4 things as a que: the red shield, the white shield, the actual animations, or the sound. I mean, it wasn't rocket science at all.

2. No I'm saying that it effects ALL LEVELS of gameplay. Now, where as 95% of GBs were countered, probably 99.9 % of them will now be countered. I don't get how that concept is difficult to grasp. Seems like a huge lose to me as it affects an already extremely bad fighting system in an otherwise fun game with lots of potential.

3. Honestly, this may seem harsh, but who cares about people who play the game for a month and still can't do something as simple as counter a guard break? If devs of fighting games listened to these people an catered to their every need, games would be completely garbage, with no high skill ceilings. This doesn't make it less throw spammy for beginners, because beginners will still get rekt by GBs because they probably just don't have the skill to even realize its happening.

What this effects are the people who are average and above, which is a large portion of the community right now. It DOES affect how the game is meant to be played, because it encourages defensive turtling, which is what most people are complaining about right now. The game is too defensive, and people are rewarded way too much for turtling.

Now you are rewarded for not only turtling, but bad timing as well. Seems legit.

If people like you think your reactions are so godlike, then you all should be on board with guard break animations being sped up and being like 2 frames. That way, since your prediction and reactions are so good, you should have no problems getting the GB counter off. I mean thats the way you guys counter anyway right? You see someone about to grab you and then you press it as fast as possible.

So if the devs made GBs like other fighting games where a throw is like 2 frames, that should solve all the issues we are seeing right now. Guard breaks would become more viable, and the people with great reactions wouldn't get punished for being too early, they wouldl get punished for being too slow like normal ya?

[MinaX-LorD]

Now, a mindless GB can actually kill you. Yesterday, I had a duel with a nobushi (me : PK). She wanted to gb me on a bridge. I countered and the pushback from the counter ledge-killed her. It was basically suicide.

Thats nothing new. It used to happen frequently and was easy to perform before this patch was implemented lol. The fact is: guard breaking did not need to be touched. People were just mad because they got in close range and the first thing they wanted to do was guard break, and they were getting beat to the punch and punished hard for it. If these people simply just did a light attack instead of being thirsty for a guard break, they wouldn't have had to come on the forums and cry that GB was "broken".

Thats why GB needs to do damage on hit, because as of right now, there is no punish for letting someone touch you 30 times with a GB and there should be. You are getting punched in the face yet it does nothing. If GB did like 3-5 dmg on connect, even when countered, it would force people to be more aggressive and actually do something when standing in someones face other than just sit there and wait to block or counter a GB. If you don't want to get hit with a GB, throw out a light attack. Its really that simple.

Right now, that type of gameplay is killing the game.

The "I win button" was only a thing for people who were really bad. No one who was average or above was getting obliterated by guard breaks. Decent players knew how to easily counter it. That mindset was strictly among the lowest of low level players

[DrExtrem]

Hint: Most people are "bad" at the game.

The more fluent gameplay will be a very nice thing for everybody. Bad players can get better, if counter guard breaking is not possible and an automatic respawn.

Prior to the patch, GB / cGB was even unfair, if both tried to GB at the same time.


High level gameplay is not even touched.

[Mr_Gallows]

This change is good. It has absolutely no influence on top level play, but it does help lower level play a lot.

If you are sad, that you can no longer "pwn noobs" with your GB, then I guess you'll have to actually learn to get an attack in without, which is also the case at higher level, where GB gets countered most of the time, before and after patch.

Suck it up 😂

[Ezcendant]

1.The way it worked was that you waited and timed it so that you were countering it right as you were being hit, which was simple for anyone who knows how to study and learn something.

As someone who enjoys studying so much that I'm always doing a part time degree of one type or another for fun, no, it wasn't simple. It might have been OK for you because you were already using the QTE timing, but for people like myself who go by the animations the new live timings were atrocious and made zero sense. Because of how I perceive combat through animation I was essentially playing two different games at the same time, so to be even with someone I, in effect, needed to play 50% better than them.

That's just how brains work. My friends can't understand why I have to invert the Y axis in shooters either, it's just how humans perceive and process things differently.

Now though, because you train based on timing you can readjust, you even said it was simple. And for the rest of the people like myself who need to see it make sense we're fine as well.

2. No I'm saying that it effects ALL LEVELS of gameplay. Now, where as 95% of GBs were countered, probably 99.9 % of them will now be countered. I don't get how that concept is difficult to grasp. Seems like a huge lose to me as it affects an already extremely bad fighting system in an otherwise fun game with lots of potential.

Pros rarely miss and good games are balanced around top tier play. Once they adjust to the new timing this should have no effect on them at all. It's purely a bottom 80% qol change.

3. Honestly, this may seem harsh, but who cares about people who play the game for a month and still can't do something as simple as counter a guard break? If devs of fighting games listened to these people an catered to their every need, games would be completely garbage, with no high skill ceilings. This doesn't make it less throw spammy for beginners, because beginners will still get rekt by GBs because they probably just don't have the skill to even realize its happening.

As I said above, balance should always be done with the top tier play in mind, but the design should be fun and easy to grasp so beginners can pick it up and become good with effort (maybe not pro, but decent). Making something intuitive does not mean it has less depth. It just means more people will pick it up and not get pissed off that they need to study the movelist with more diligence than they would a medical degree (as is the case with some fighters).

What this effects are the people who are average and above, which is a large portion of the community right now. It DOES affect how the game is meant to be played, because it encourages defensive turtling, which is what most people are complaining about right now. The game is too defensive, and people are rewarded way too much for turtling.

Having played it a bit it feels like the window is slightly larger than before, this does affect the turtle meta and should be addressed I agree, but it has nothing to do with moving the timing or adjusting GB overrides.

If people like you think your reactions are so godlike, then you all should be on board with guard break animations being sped up and being like 2 frames. That way, since your prediction and reactions are so good, you should have no problems getting the GB counter off. I mean thats the way you guys counter anyway right? You see someone about to grab you and then you press it as fast as possible.

I wouldn't call myself godlike, it's only my writing style that makes me sound like an egotistic *****, it's not my actual personality, lol. But yes, what you're suggesting would suit me perfectly. I'm not sure how 2 frames would go on Ubi's netcode (it also sounds a bit fast, 0.03 seconds? Isn't the average human reaction speed like 0.25 to visual stimuli?), but the concept would be my ideal.

The idea of a guard break attempt dealing chip damage is interesting, it'd need testing before I'd side either for or against it.