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Title. They are cancer and the main reason class imbalance is out of whack. You can't have zone attacks like conq/kensai which are near useless. Then lightning fast high damage ones like orochi/pk/warden. They are highly abused and should just be for killing minions. Not for getting freebie damage at near unreactable speed. Every match is literally a warden/orochi/pk using these tools to land other hits because it involves guess work and you are going to be by one or the other, doesn't even feel like you have an option other then choosing which one. Oroci top double light, or zone. PK zone/light mixups. Warden Top light or zone.
You got the crappy classes with crappy zones and lackluster tool kits. Then the stronger heros with strong zones ontop of strong toolkit so it boils down to, ok whats this guy gonna do, or try feinting into, and gonna hit me with at near unreactable speeds on p2p. Which one do I have to guess and defend against, nope wrong hit again.
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Conq heavy attack does 23 uncharged is laughable slow. and isnt lightning quick dude. When you can constantly play the game of rapid attacks back and forth with feint mixups, you are going to get that damage in. Not ok, hey this guy has this as his primary method of offense, not guess 50/50 which 9-12 frame attack is gonna pop you, ontop of an already strong tool-kit. This is a huge imbalance between hero zones and usefulness. It doesn't take a fool to see why the stronger classes succeeding and the weaker ones arent. In a turtle meta it makes them that much better, especially when they decide to do it (barring pk who doesn't need too unless they wanna revenge cheese you, but even then its a waste of time).Originally Posted by TCTF_SWAT Go to original post
You simply can't argue PVE tools having a huge disparity between classes, the speed at which they do, and the damage. Its why they are being used and a core staple of the stronger heros currently.
20 damage and 9-12 frames for a zone is unacceptable, when these heros also have rapid frame attacks to compliment and keep you "guessing" and trying to predict outplay it. Its not even defendable.
Imagine if conquerors charged mace came out at 9 frames and the only way of not getting hit was "Guessing" what direction it was coming from. Over and over and everyone said bruh its fine just git gud like the majority of these mains are. Its a guessing game of which attack they wanna peg you with, Nobushi/Lawbringer/Raider suffer even more then other heros because of slower guard changes. Its simply an unacceptable state of balance.
PKs are at the top because of this, nobody likes playing against it. Zone cancel light mixups, every hero is forced to turtle and even then you are going to get hit.
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Correct, but any warden worth his salt isnt gonna spam it, he is gonna use it to at opportune times as a freebie. If they wanna keep zone attacks fine, but give everyone 9-12 frame zones, with the same damage across board.Originally Posted by Bob__Gnarly Go to original post
There is a huge glaring disparity and only the mains of these heros are gonna sit there and defend them in the numerous threads regarding them.
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What they need to do is reclassify them. Almost none of them are zone attacks, they're specials. Cockroachi don't cancel into a zone attack for area denial, they do it for the damage, same with raiders who use it from a gb, etc. Change the name and people will understand that they aren't all used for the same purpose.
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Originally Posted by Egotistic_Ez Go to original post
Its not about reclassifying them. Its the fact characters with extremely strong tool kits, also have extremely strong versions to make them even more abusive and give more opportunities for lightning quick freebie damage, and on the other end of the spectrum crap heroes with poor options and even poorer useless zone. Can't even compare the two.
Do you really think the top tier heros would be that much an issue if they didn't have 9-12 frame zone attacks to go with eveything else they are doing, besides the small stuff?
Its because one or the other is gonna hit you and it becomes a "guess game" not a skill game. Take warden, ontop of his vortex, he has overhead light which is fast, plus the parry into it, parry/gbs for good damage, and bake it even further with a crazy fast zone, polar opposite, kensai, every attack laughably slow/predictable/parryable. Even more laughable zone attack.
There is no semblance of balance between the hero spectrum, and the zone problem just makes the already strong heros, even stronger, since they are the one with the strongest zones ironically.
Give kensai zone the same speed as PK, and he is suddenly a one trick pony. Do you not see the problem here? Don't get me twisted, I love this game and I'm not screaming nerf everything, just specifics and zone attack making the strongest heros, even stronger is one dominating issue.
Conq/Nobushi/Kensai/Raider/Berserker/Lawbringer are outclassed on so many levels by hero kits, defensive options, offensive options. Zone issuesonly make it a broader gap.
inb4 everyone but conq is so g00d and op, yea at bullying the ****tier classes with his ****tier skillset when they dont know how to dodge out of a wall combo
