Member
So I realize conq can be frustrating for new players to play against regarding is wall bash combo, and you are looking to make the game fun/balanced at all levels of play.
Is this going to be a give and take situation? At higher levels of play, most people are leery of wall combos, and the majority can escape them, even the revenge shield bash combo.
Charged heavy timing is difficult to use as a parry manuever due to peer to peer, All guard has quite a wind up delay to even make use of it. Shield bash heavy combos do nothing vs players that know how to block since its not confirm damage, you only get a light off it and fairly often it pushes them out of range of even the light. Our heavies only do 23 damage and are unable to execute someone in a GB heavy combo.
For all its strengths at low/mid levels of play, climbing into higher levels most people at very aware of a conqs strengths and weaknesses and don't have the same troubles and it becomes a long endurance fight and a game of predictability.
Conq zone attack is pretty laughable, in terms of damage and usefulness and pales in comparision to other heros. The conq also lacks rapid attacks like warden top and zone, or orochi, so were very limited in what we can do in the neutral game outside of just trying to predict our opponent and find ways to punish. We can't play the lulstomp game of feinting into rapid top lights, or crazy fast zone attacks that do tremendous damage.
I'm ok with nerfs, but please don't just make this a take and not give situation, leaving all the other glaring issues left. Otherwise this game will turn into nothing but PKs and Wardens every single match (if warlord nerf hits them hard enough)
I say this because its a pretty difficult fight beating anyone 1v1 that is decent at this game without getting a couple wall combos in when you can, or getting lucky with mind games and pegging them with a charged heavy (which is very telegraphed and easy to parry/deflect) and the occasional few hits of rapid lights vs GB spammers. I have a rep 3 nobushi/orochi/kensai and by far Conq feels like the hardest to outplay and manuever people on because nothing is free in neutral game with them and even light attacks are easily parried/deflected because of its speed.
I'm fine with the wall combo being nerfed but please fix its issues outside it and give us better tools for fighting defensive/reactive players and heros with rapid punishing attacks that are very safe to use since we have ZERO
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Turion1234 Go to original post
They are focusing on secondary matters, they really need to change the defensive meta. Nerfing classes now, is just awufull, if the core gameplay doesn't work.
Just my opinion btw
Member
I think the whole defensive meta works for certain heros imo and not so much for others. Its why conqs aren't considered S tier, they don't have massive punishment tools. While warlords/wardens can do way more work and punishment with better combos/vortexs and better neutral game and faster and more damage abilities that are easier and more consistent land, especially with good feinting. Look at warden light speed, and zone attack, a good warden can land either of them with little effort because of its frames. Not even accounting his vortex freebie damage.Originally Posted by Lord-Micidial Go to original post
Warlord needs no mention everyone knows. I just don't think the turtle meta benifits some heros as much as it does others. PKs dont even need a turtle game.
I've watched every youtube conq video I could get my hands on and have plenty of ingame time played. They don't have absurd combos outside of wall banging you. If you get positioned there its really you're own fault and even then its escapable. They incapable of playing the neutral game and throwing out lightning quick zone attacks that do crazy amounts of damage, shield bash isn't anywhere near as quick as warlords and its easy to avoid. Turtle meta does nothing for them unless vs noobs imo so I don't see the reason for a nerf being top priority.
Member
100% agreed with OP. the conqueror is so limited in his options its realy frustrating against high level players, who just play defensive themselfs, you cant do anything, other then trying to push them to a wall or of a ledge. conqueror is the least played character by far and it seems like ubisoft dont care. now he is getting nerfed, dont know what is comming, i guess a whiffed shield bash beeing punishable or maybe something with all guard stance (cause warlord is getting nerfed too). But his problems (slow low damage heavy attacks, slow low damage light attacks, guard breaks out of charging up, that you cant conter, no offencive options whatsoever) are not mentioned, and its so frustrating to be left in the dark. I am investing all my time into my conqueror getting him to high reputation and i dont want this to be wasted, when he is just a crappy class at the end, that no one cares about, cause no one plays him and the noobs are just crying because they cant dodge
Member
my suggestion for the Conqueror would be to get rid of the obvious charge animation, and let the Conqueror be able to buffer his charging into everything:
I GB someone and while in the GB attempt animation, i hold heavy attack and getting charged up (leave the glowing effect, if you want to) and can hit someone with a lvl 2 charged heavy when the GB goes through. I am dashing around and hold the heavy to charge without interupting the charge, I do the infinite into heavy combo, let me charge up a heavy in the mids of a light animation and be able to light light light... release heavy at any point. heavy into heavy combo, going heavy, hold charge, release the second for a lvl 1 charged heavy. and of corse charged up should still be draining stamina. that would be skillful to manage your charging at any point and watch your stamina and the Conqueror would have a good offence with fast hard hitting attacks.
Junior Member
I love my conqueror and feel he is in no way overpowered, just molded wrong.
I think the conq should be the ultimate punisher. His slow big hits should do phenomenal damage but be required to time them near perfectly.
His GB should be easier cause it is required to set up big hits but his charge should be riskier since its damage would be off the scales.
Just first thoughts
Member
Conqueror is overpowered, and yet no one plays him online? Makes sense. I think I've seen one conqueror in 3 days of 1v1. Probably explains why no one knows how to play him. Good players can completely shut down his offence. If he gets nerfs this early before most people learn to deal with him, i think the character is probably boned. Which is a shame.
Member
No one plays him because he's boring. He has such a small effective toolset, you basically just do the same thing over and over, however the shield bash/light combo is extremely strong and safe. If they do end up nerfing it, which is pretty likely, they need to give him more tools to make up for it.Originally Posted by SeeNoWeevil Go to original post
Member
I play the Conq almost exclusivly, have been since beta, and I don't really "exploit" the charge into light safe combo, as its a bit boring, I only use that when I meet other people that abuse OP combos like Warden vortex spammers. Other than that, I probably turtle up a bit, blocking as much possible, trying to charge my heavies and either baiting a GB (that I stop with a fully charged heavy, timed well ofc) or trying to utilize my full range of abilities with dodge-shield bash into light, dodge into grab, infinite light "spam". I basicly try to play unpredictable, using all combos, sometimes "baiting" people into thinking I only use one combo, for then mixing it up. It's rather fun and I really enjoy playing a defensive class, made to punish people, and I don't really hope they nerf us without giving something back.
No matter how much "mind games" I try to play vs the really good players, Conqs are super ineffectice vs skilled players that turtle back, just waiting for something to parry. If they nerf Conqs one guaranteed hit, I really do hope they give something back somewhere else, as Conqs are insanely punished by not having any fast attacks or real feints:/
Imo (ofc, I might be biased) Conqs aren't really overpowered, they just need a tweak, not a nerf, not a buff, just a tweak. Remove the shield bash into light spam, but give something else instead that makes us viable without it.
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