Valkyrie OP or git gud? | Forums

[SethUnleashed]

I doesn't make me a hypocrite, my friend, because I'm not the one that made the video Shield bashing is, to me, as much of a ****ty move as it is her shield bashing + sweep. That's why I stated that he's not the best conqueror out there.

Also, sure, I tend to dodge that sweep, yet the recovery time on some characters isn't enough for a block on the follow up assuming I fail to dodge the sweep. Again, with the warden I make dem valkyries mah *****es, but with other characters I just can't block them and get caught easily on their combo.

One more thing... you didn't even clicked on that link, didn't you? :c

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...0037-Send-help

It's about the ****ing error 006000037 or something. I need help with that.

the hypocrite thing was obviously meant for the vid-creator (i didnt check if the was you or not)
but it just shows how much of a double-standard goes around these days.

and no, i did click the link, but i managed to quote the wrong one... cant help you with the error thing though, so sorry for that.

[Chaos_Model]

Valk is a lot of things, OP is hardly one of them, p5 and I quit playing it because of what one of my fellow Valk players pointed out so clearly (which I will copy/paste in a moment), the biggest issue w/most people I totally annihilated while playing Valk is the fact they were:

1. Impatient, they thought they could rush in swinging wildly w/out taking into account a dodge or roll
2. Predictability: This is espically true with most Orochi and Berserker players, dodge left attack, dodge right attack, run away (oroichi) Naruto dash lol....seriously? Next time just send a message which attacks you will be using, will save you time.
3. Team mates: I loved it when 2+ players would think oh, easy kill...gang up on them. Umm...hello, block, revenge, (and if I pop Juggernaut it was on and poppin). Usually your own team mates got you killed by vortex attacks which interrupt you, allowing me to chain into a sweep, knock you down and turn my attention to them. A Valk with unlimited stam due to Revenge, plus Juggernaut is a scary thing.

Now onto what SethUnleashed posted prior in the Valk forums, why is this class far from being...OP?

that is another problem with valk yes... the all-block is completely useless as its
A) too predictable,
B) you cant counter a GB out of it,
C) you have to back-dodge first which puts you out of range anyway and
D) the shield-tackle into GB cancel is still broken.


valk is supposed to be an Assassin/Heavy hybrid, yet she only gets the downsides of each:

- low healthpool
- deflect has even tighter timing than that of other assassins AND can be auto-blocked by some classes
- dodge is not working the same as with other assassins (her i-frames seem lower and her dodge window is very small in comparison to ANY other class, i've tested this quite a lot)
- all-block stance is 95%+ useless due to above mentioned problems
- leg-sweep is VERY easily dodged AND has (still, even after patch) a long recovery that the enemy can side-step AND GB you.
- no heavy combo that is usefull (light-light-heavy is completely useless as the heavy in the end is as slow as it gets)
- superiour light attack window being smaller than normal parry AND having zero benefit over normal parry as its damage its laughably small in comparison to a guaranteed guardbreak + heavy from a normal parry AND on top of all of that can also be auto-blocked by some classes
- getting hit recovery is still pretty long and you have a VERY hard time blocking anything after getting hit once (borderline impossible to parry and literally impossible to dodge unless its a heavy attack that follows)
- guard-swap speed seems low too AND valk generally seems to have a guard problem as people seem to have more and more situations where attacks go through their block

IF you play smart, you will have little trouble facing a good Valk player, even less playing a button masher who relies on Vortex (2 or 3 and no stam...go to town on them)

[Knight_Raime]

I think she's probably one of the most balanced heros in the game. she's god mad potential and the ability to consistently/easily open up turtles. but nearly everything she does is unsafe. and her damage unless you pull her optimal combo (which requires the enemy to have no stamina) is awful.

[SethUnleashed]

I think she's probably one of the most balanced heros in the game. she's god mad potential and the ability to consistently/easily open up turtles. but nearly everything she does is unsafe. and her damage unless you pull her optimal combo (which requires the enemy to have no stamina) is awful.

ability to open up enemies:
not really true... she has the tools BUT everything is easily countered/dodged AND she doesnt have a real vortex (warden shoulder bash is a real vortex as you CANNOT counter it by reaction).
in theory her kit is great, in practice she is too predictable and too punishable after missing anything.

everything is unsafe:
true, hence why she is NOT balanced ... her whole kit is a lottery everytime you use it UNLESS you use it to counter something (which wont help in the turtle meta)

damage:
while the side-step damage buff is nice, you will NOT get the 3-light combo off and her heavy attacks do so little damage that its laughable... her time to kill is WAY too high.
this wouldnt be a problem if she would actually be really good at controlling, which as stated above, she isnt due to her whole kit being unsafe and not having a real vortex.

it would help a lot if:
- you could all-block out of ANY dodge (not just back)
- her shield-tackle into GB cancel would actually work

then we can talk about a control class with low-ish damage.
currently she is fun to play most of the time, but frustrating to no end against good players.

apart from the warlord, every viking class kind of suffers this fate.


@Chaos_Model
thanks for quoting me

[Knight_Raime]

ability to open up enemies:
not really true... she has the tools BUT everything is easily countered/dodged AND she doesnt have a real vortex (warden shoulder bash is a real vortex as you CANNOT counter it by reaction).
in theory her kit is great, in practice she is too predictable and too punishable after missing anything.

everything is unsafe:
true, hence why she is NOT balanced ... her whole kit is a lottery everytime you use it UNLESS you use it to counter something (which wont help in the turtle meta)

damage:
while the side-step damage buff is nice, you will NOT get the 3-light combo off and her heavy attacks do so little damage that its laughable... her time to kill is WAY too high.
this wouldnt be a problem if she would actually be really good at controlling, which as stated above, she isnt due to her whole kit being unsafe and not having a real vortex.

it would help a lot if:
- you could all-block out of ANY dodge (not just back)
- her shield-tackle into GB cancel would actually work

then we can talk about a control class with low-ish damage.
currently she is fun to play most of the time, but frustrating to no end against good players.

apart from the warlord, every viking class kind of suffers this fate.


@Chaos_Model
thanks for quoting me

All I know is i've seen some top tier play with her. and so far besides pk she seems to be the only hero who opens up turtles easier compared to the rest of the cast.

[Eleanor-Ripley]

All I know is i've seen some top tier play with her. and so far besides pk she seems to be the only hero who opens up turtles easier compared to the rest of the cast.

Ill agree on this.
Very few turtles act randomly, by thit i mean they rarely switch it up. For instance alot of the times you can instantly see a warlord is relying on his block-counter/headbutt, so hes focused on either blocking or parrying.
Naturally you feint a heavy into shield bash and go for the sweep = he's open.
Alot of the times yuou can just run up to them and GB
Conqs are easier since most go for a charge at first, then turtle. Same procedure really.
Shugokus; just hit them once and theyre dead really. Most rely too much on their armor and grab. Predictable

[SethUnleashed]

Ill agree on this.
Very few turtles act randomly, by thit i mean they rarely switch it up. For instance alot of the times you can instantly see a warlord is relying on his block-counter/headbutt, so hes focused on either blocking or parrying.
Naturally you feint a heavy into shield bash and go for the sweep = he's open.
Alot of the times yuou can just run up to them and GB
Conqs are easier since most go for a charge at first, then turtle. Same procedure really.
Shugokus; just hit them once and theyre dead really. Most rely too much on their armor and grab. Predictable

all those things just show for either bad players or a bad system on the side of those classes.

im not saying valk is bad, im just saying she isnt as good as some make her out to be because they cant dodge a sweep for example.

as for top-tier play: you can find top tier play for any class, but it always depends on the opponent and those videos rarely ever show an opponent of equal skill.
like most berserker videos where they claim its "high level play" and then they do a 6+ hit-chain ... that is NOT high level play on either side, it just means your opponent is bad
this holds true for 90%+ of "high level [insert class]" videos you can currently find on youtube. its just something people put on their videos for click-bait and sadly it mostly is just that.

[Knight_Raime]

all those things just show for either bad players or a bad system on the side of those classes.

im not saying valk is bad, im just saying she isnt as good as some make her out to be because they cant dodge a sweep for example.

as for top-tier play: you can find top tier play for any class, but it always depends on the opponent and those videos rarely ever show an opponent of equal skill.
like most berserker videos where they claim its "high level play" and then they do a 6+ hit-chain ... that is NOT high level play on either side, it just means your opponent is bad
this holds true for 90%+ of "high level [insert class]" videos you can currently find on youtube. its just something people put on their videos for click-bait and sadly it mostly is just that.

I was watching truetalent. so he was deff fighting people of equal skill.

[FIR3R3APER]

Well I think it was a glass cannon pre-patch and I think it still needs another buff to be honest. The Peacekeeper is faster and Nobushi are more OP than the Valkyrie is. I think she needs another buff to be honest

[Scoregasms2286]

So the character who was literally the worst in the game, got a buff and now people think shes OP? I think people are thinking she is OP is because she is somewhere in the middle now, aka they used to stomp valks but now they are loosing.

Valk still has horrible recovery times from being hit, if going against a PK, she can almost light attack spam you to death because you cannot block her light chain due to valks stagger. If Orochi hits valk with his backward slash (whatever its called) she is still staggering allowing orochi a free overhead heavy or double overhead light.

I played valk in alpha, she was a beast, continued to play her on release, she was pretty bad I was winning less than half of my duels/brawls compared to my PK/LB winning > 80%. But, as time went on I adjusted her play style and grew better with the new sluggish valk. Then the patch came, Valk feels great again! I feel I can actually punish enemies now because I can get a combo off, compared to pre patch I could get 1 attack off and be block or punished.

I think the valk players pre patch who were good with her, have now become even better, to the point people think shes OP. I notice alot in my matchups people do not dodge my leg sweep, which gives me a free overhead. I also notice most players just falling for a whiff attack. If you whiff valks first attack her second attack comes out considerably faster, so missing the first attack, opponent moves in thinking you are done, into a second light, into a sweep catches them off guard.

My best advice is to learn valk, know her mixups so you know what she might be setting up.