Member
Team micro management like in Arma would be nice, but it would take another time box to design, develop and test. In a perfect world and perfect game, the AI would be super smart but if they decided to focus on other areas it's good they decided to fake the sync shot. Maybe in Wildlands 2 they will introduce squad detailed orders, but for now this works pretty alright.
Junior Member
Its not always good to take the path of least resistance.. U can order ur whole team around already so it cant be that hard to make that work for single teammates as well.Originally Posted by lato_1982 Go to original post
Noone asks for a perfect game and perfect ai, that will never happen. But " faking " this feature just because they are to lazy to implement it propperly or dont want to force those fast paced kids to take some time and use their head, isnt a solution...like at all. Its not a miracle we are asking for right here..other games and ubisoft themselfs have done it before. So this fiasco has zero excuse.
Member
Team micro management like in Arma would be nice, but it would take another time box to design, develop and test. In a perfect world and perfect game, the AI would be super smart but if they decided to focus on other areas it's good they decided to fake the sync shot. Maybe in Wildlands 2 they will introduce squad detailed orders, but for now this works pretty alright.
Member
Senior Member
Oh, someone who can see the reality as it is instead of complain about everything without thinking about why that is and what would happen if they actually got what they wanted.Originally Posted by lato_1982 Go to original post
ppl really need to be careful with what they wish for.
yeah, sure it's annoying seeing how the AI is cheating to achieve things - they teleport, they are far harder to get detected than the player, they fake sync-shots and they pop in your vehicle if you live them to die - but some of those things are a necessity. With a limited budget i can assume if UBI wanted to put more development time on the AI or the coop feature than they chose the latter. those contradict since this game looks like coop primarily.
there is no other game i can think of where the AI has the ability to sneak around without being detected. none. if you wish to complain about how bad the ghosts AI are in this game, please show me a different game where you have a friendly AI that can act smarter, sneak around complex environments, stealth kill other AIs and all that without being detected and without "cheating".
trying to do this is a huge risk on UBIs behalf and as expected - it isnt perfect. this is a complex issue and UBI couldnt pull it off well enough. big suprise. no one could, to this day. not that i know of.
So they made shortcuts.
Even if they gave us a way to micromanage our AIs individually (something we ALL would appreciate) this would still happen because they would have to cater to those who dont want to send each ghost individually and micro manage, and if they didnt want the AI to cheat and force players to lead each ghost to a place where they could actually see their target than you would encounter a lot of time where the AI that you placed on a hill STILL cant get a shot. then you'd come to the boards complaining the AI cant make the sync shot work, just because the enemy moved a bit or hid behind a fence. or the ghosts would come off the hill, try to get a LOS, get spotted, ruin your stealth and then you'd come to the boards and complain about how bad the AI is because they got detected.
This issue of the ghosts AI is super complex to solve. ridiculously complex. This game is a small step in the right direction, we are right to point the issues out but i bet UBI knows all this. these cheats are a conscious decision and im sure that if there is a wildlands 2, they will try their best to improve this.
other companies will also look at this game and will try to do better in the future, but every progress needs to start somewhere with a mediocre attempt.
this is this attempt.
it's not great. we can all see the cracks. but we can also try and appreciate this is the first open world game with teammates and stealth ever and enjoy what we DO have instead of treating what we DONT as if it completely ruins the game.
Junior Member
Operation flashpoint was release in 2001...open world + teammates and it worked ...16 years ago.. but hey ubisoft and GRW create a whole new genre and they had to build everything from scratch.
So its ok if the ai is ****...i mean they cant do both.. a beautiful open world and good gameplay. To much to ask for.
So lets wait for GRW2 ubisoft will adress all the problems and make the game we all dreamed of.
Until then appreciate this masterpiece.
Member
Member
Well, in OGR, your AI team mates could be spotted, and could spot enemies too. The squad AI was robust enough that if they sensed they could be spotted from their position they would retreat behind cover and lie down, especially if told to 'go stealthy'. In many ways it seems that the AI has become less intelligent over the last few years, not more. I'm baffled that we seem to have gone from 3 fireteams that you could individually control (down to their scanning arcs) with a map view, to a single blob of AI teammates that can freely wander through enemies without a care, and can only be sent somewhere within close LoS to the player.
Tim
Senior Member
I do not remember the original GR game, but i seriously doubt the AI was as smart as you think it was. very seriously doubt that.
the AI before 2012, give or take, did not know how to grab cover on their own. if they did (like in cover based shooters) it was because the developers placed cover-nodes around edges of cover. otherwise the AI wouldnt understand how to break LOS, how to lean around cover, how to duck behind cover etc. and if the AI couldnt understand cover so well they sure as heck didnt know how to sneak around and remain behind cover to stay undetected. they had very basic functions like "if enemy sees me than i go prone" and stuff like that. their behavior kinda disregarded the environment, and stealth is all about using the environment.
even in ARMA3, a relatively newer game than GR and OFP, the AI is pretty bad in terms of stealth. upon engament they would often crouch or prone even if good cover was near by. very rarely you could see an AI leaning around corners or pillars and you never saw a AI soldier sneak on purpose.
what you thought you saw in older games like flashpoint and GR was not that. the AI technology just wasnt there. only from the days of GTAIV, give or take, developers started developing collision based cover systems for the player and AI and only then AI-stealth became possible in theory in open world games because they drew lines from the AI to other AIs and the geometry and understood when they are hidden etc. in linear games you could script the AI to act as if they are stealthy (like in GR:FS for example) but it wasnt the AI who were understanding how and when to sneak. it was all scripted.
modern AI has not gone backwards. not at all. the complexity of games and command systems HAVE, (devs will say its been streamlined but i bet it could have been easy to implement a command system on the tac-map to individual soldiers instead of just blobing them around in the 3D view only, or tapping different buttons to send different AIs in the 3D view) but the AI is far more advanced. especially in UBI games that have some of the best AIs in the business in games like Farcry 3 or 4. the only difference is that the games look and behave so well these days that we expect the advancement in AI to be on par with the visual quality and it isnt yet. when graphics look so realistic our brain expects realistic AI and when the AI isnt perfect players immediately spot it when the enemies can see them through vegetation, where the AI did exactly that on every other GR game as well, but back then it was "forgiven" because "just a game".
Banned
