Community gameplay balance suggestions | Forums

[Netcode_err_404]

Would like to hear from ubisoft as well at this point. If they think the game is pretty much-fine and make some small change only, then i will uninstall and never look back.
But discuss things until then could be a good thing.

Havent seen any comments yet about making combos available here. I would really like combos to be available since attacking once and then stopping compared to having the decision to do a 2-4 attack chain and then mixing it up afterwards and so on, would open up room for tactics and executions. And than in a later patch(the one after ubisoft fixes the core) we would see more mixups and more class specific combos, just more variation.


The other thing i wanna mention is the dodge and deflect.. There have been talk about it already but dont really see anyone mentioning this, and purely adding a stamina cost wont fix the "funamental problem". Really think deflect for assassins and dodge in general needs to change. A simple dodge without any attack is fine for those classes or some atleast, albeit a bit boring but could work on some specific classes(to have classes work different). However, when an attack exists within a class its troublesome, for both balance and design perspective.

If a slower character attacks, then instead of standing there and blocking or parrying the class just dodge and gets a free hit. The problem here is that
1) The slower character dont want to attack against this specific class. So it kinda halters the gameplay from him in a bad way. Doesnt mean it halters purely for slow hitting classes either btw, iam just using this as an example right here.
2) If parry gets changed to no-free-damage(which i agree with) then feinting won't do much since the assassin will do its attack and all the slower character can do is block or parry and the assassin pretty much has a low-risk-high-reward.

All in all, it feels really bad from a gameplay perspective. Even in live game where parry gives damage, its still a very boring feauture.

Suggestion:
Make sidestepping+attack only available after a parry
Make sidestepping+attack only available after x amount of blocks - This one could be cool but not sure its realistic for ubisoft to make something like this into the game.

Cant think of any better as of this moment

I really like your idea.

[Mr_Gallows]

Great stuff Maaci!

[Mr_Gallows]

It may also be worth considering different balance settings for pc and console or rather mouse and controller. Maybe it's just the deadzone, but a controller is slower to react it seems.

[Mr_Gallows]

I wish the developers would be clear about their intentions for parry - if they intend to let is stay as the best offensive tool.

[nyrue]

From another thread I posted in:

The defensive meta is actually easily fixed with two changes:
1. Chip damage should be raised substantially
2. A parry attempt should be a commitment and not be feintable.

This way a parry is a read, the same way a dodge or dodge attack is.
Dodging leaves you open for a guardbreak if the offender feinted and read your dodge. In return a dodge-attack beats guardbreak, but the dodge attack can also be parried if read correctly.

With these changes it would be viable to link attacks and feint in said attacks if you expect a parry. the game would be more about whiff punishes and getting attacks in at the right time.

this man gets its, I've also made similar suggestions, my only concern with this is, that if you change the timing on the feints you risk making them altogether useless. as it is right now the most convincing feints are those canceled late into the swing, when you cancel your feint matters, if ubisoft should changes this I caution them, if you narrow the window you must also create a delay in the feint so that it is still an effective mechanic

[Mr_Gallows]

Yes I agree, feint must be a good tool. In itself it does no damage, but it must be useful for mind games.

Not being able to cancel parries may work, but it does only shift the meta slightly.

As long as parry is such a powerful offensive tool it will promote defensive play. The easiest fix would be to remove the free damage from parry and instead allow a heavy atack to be faster and uninteruptable from a parry. With increases chip damage parry will still be very useful. The faster heavy attack from a parry should be blockable, but you should be able to combo it with a feint and keep the extra speed on another heavy after the feint.

[Mr_Gallows]

Just a repost.

Unfortunately if they did that, being too aggressive would have no drawback, since there would be no retaliation.

Unless they kept guard breaks after parries, which would just net a free heavy anyway.

Changes to parry are necessary, but difficult to actually do in practice since it's a core concept of the combat system.

In my opinion, more needs to be done about exhaustion (Running out of stamina completely). Parrying takes away a lot of an attacker's stamina, so maybe if they made exhaustion much more impactful they could remove the free heavy after parries. That would subtly buff characters like Raider and Lawbringer who currently lack tools for doing damage directly, but not make defensive play on its own even more viable than it currently is. Since Raider and Lawbringer are both masters of draining stamina, it could be a buff without any actual changes to the characters themselves.

I've personally been a fan of the idea where if you're exhausted you shouldn't be able to dodge or parry, making you have to just block attacks and counter guard breaks. That would make block damage and block damage resistance much more of a useful stat and prevent people (such as assassins) from just dodging away to complete safety whenever they run out of stamina. Another option in this would be to make someone dodge significantly slower during exhaustion, so they can still avoid things like the Lawbringer's Long Arm or other unblockable shoves.

Thoughts?

I agree with the dodge thing and perhaps parry too, to some extent, although it would make unblockables too powerful for characters that drain stamina. If stamina was controlled only by the player himself, then I would agree completely.

Parry would still be able to stop an assault. If your next heavy after parry was faster and the person being parried could only defend, then the one being parried would have to stop attacking and defend. I agree with the idea of parry, they just made it too good, so you get free damage after a parry. This change of parry should be combined with increased chip damage on heavy attacks, so parry remains a very useful tool. Parry would still drain stamina, which naturally limits the offensive ability. I would also lower the stamina regain a bit for better balance. After a parry you would still be able to do a GB or attack (that can be blocked/countered though). You could even make it a 50/50 so no parry was allowed right after being parried, this means you would have to dodge to avoid damage or defend against GB. I do think there could be some really awesome exchanges with skillful players who keep parrying each others faster heavy attacks, so I think being able to parry will create a more intense combat experience. There would still be some mind game involved where you could get a double parry if you risk a feint.

I do think a change to the out of stamina system must be tweaked as well, so parry can still ve useful for putting your enemy at a disadvantage. maybe when exhausted you can still parry, but it does not reduce chip damage from heavy attacks.

Don't want it to become too convoluted, but I believe parry can become a purely defensive tool that will allow you to go on the offensive while not giving you free damage.

This means defence is still solid and can negate all attacks if you parry, but you need to attack to do damage.

But yes, even if I don't have an idea right now, I think you're on to something with the exhausted state. That's is the key to make parry good without a single parry giving free damage or in some situations a clean kill.

[Nova.R_TactiX]

This is a list of things they need to put the finger on in my opinion :

- Able to Counter Guard Break in the begining of the dodge (in the mid animation you can't)

- Up damage when you block an attack ('cus the stat for this is a bit useless atm)

- Add a counter attack or something else unblockable in the Kensei's kit ('cus I play him a lot and he's pretty weak against ultra defensive heroes atm)

- Nerf the attack speed from the Valkyrie (0.3ms than 0.2ms for lights and 0.65ms than 0.5ms for heavies)

- Nerf PeaceKeeper dmg from lights and heavies ('cus the kit from the PK is oriented in the bleeding application)

- Disable the "little dash" for a free attack/Guard break after a parry or change the recover time for all heroes (A Shugoki can recover faster than a Kensei)

I think it's all for me.

[Mr_Gallows]

ideas

1. Parry is only defensive. Drains stamina, but does not stagger the enemy for free damage. There may be a short stagger however to ensure the person parried can only defend and not attack. A parry makes your next heavy attack slightly faster and with no stamina cost. A little damage boost may also be ok, but all those details are easy to add. Parry also stops any combo.

2. Light attack damage flinch removed.

3. Blocking responsive for all characters.

4. Small stamina cost for dodging.

5. If parried in exhausted mode you are still knocked down and your opponent gets a free attack.

6. Blocking a heavy attack drains a bit of stamina.

7. Increased chip damage on heavy attacks that are not parried.

Just some ideas. I think either 6 og 7 should be used and not both.

[Maaci]

I will look at raider in this example. Doesnt mean its only for raider or even for raider in the first place.

To continue off with "unlocking things when you parry" from the last post here.
-You parry->Interrupt the enemy->now you unlock sidestepping+attack.
In the case of the raider, he can sidestep and use a heavy attack after this, which is a fast heavy. Much faster than normal.


Some other suggestions:

Holding down a mouse button, to charge something.
(LMB=left mouse button)
(RMB=right mouse button)

-Hold down LMB->charge->release->do a charge attack from semi-long distance and than continue a combo.
LMB->charge->Your attacks are unparryable

-Hold down RMB->release->Do two heavy attacks in a row with "fast speed". Like after the first hits, the second one hits like 0,5sec afterwards or even faster. Sort of like "windfury" from world of warcraft-shaman.



And then a defensive suggestion:
Conquerer, replace his passive superior block light
Make the "feint" button do something else->

Lets call it Block chain for now.

Block chain:
Raider do a light attack. Conquerer blocks it as normal but also times the "feint" button->he blocks the attack but also gets one hit himself here which is faster than normal->if raider blocks this attack, then its his turn to attack again.

So conquerer gets only one hit after this, and it continues a chain for both players in this case. The idea is to give a unique weapon for defence as well. In this case only defensive characters should have something like this, and perhaps only 1 or 2 as well while others would get something else.

In the case of this suggestion, the thing is, the conquerer will need to do a hit after he has done his "block chain" move, if he dont, then he gets staggers and gets vulnerable. This is so its not used as a "combo breaker" because if it could be used like that it would be abused and than its a "superior block light" we have but version 2.0 instead.

Again these are just suggestions, maybe some of them wouldnt work but maybe they would if tweaked right.