Community gameplay balance suggestions | Forums

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@Lord-Micidial

I think you are right about heavy attacks. They should have their speed balanced across all characters in combination with whatever fix is made for blocking. Even slightly slower heavy attack will be much easier to block and parry.

As for a full block, I think it is fine and has a place in the game. I do agree however that it should not generate revenge. Also if you are guardbroken when using full block it could drain all your stamina to make sure you fall down. This would make using the full block more skillful in response to attacks. It should perhaps be slightly more responsive to balance it out. Would that work to balance the full block better with a balance of risk/reward?

At this point, every fix, is a good one.

IMHO they need to make parries more hard to do. And heavies meed to do damage even through block. OFC damage will be balanced with all classes.

I don't know if its a good suggestion, but something needs to happen, right now the game is not fun.
Or at least the duels.

[Mr_Gallows]

I agree. I think the parry timing will be fine though once heavy attacks are slightly quicker and parry no longer give free damage

But yes just do something, because duels at the moment are just lame. Once you learn the game, you can no longer have a fun fight. It's just this lame optimal mixup play, that feels like QTE and sometimes are a bit random because of timing and lag if you're up against someone who knows what he's doing.

[Mr_Gallows]

There is another point to be made when compairing parry and deflect,

Deflect works perfectly and parry does not.

Block and parry has a seamless transition. If you just learn to parry late you will block most of the time if you fail the parry.

Deflect does not have a seamless transition. To dodge you need to do it early and to deflect you must do it late. If your timing is somewhere in between, then you will be hit. You cannot just deflect late and get a dodge if you fail.

In terms of the mechanics of parry and deflect they are both fine.

Then the rewards for parry and deflect. Both have different rewards across different characters, but generally parry seems to be better. That is completely broken. Deflect is fine with the rewards currently in the game, but parry is not.

So to fix parry, the reward you get from a parry must be balanced. It could be done in many ways, but my simple suggestion is that parry become purely defensive, draining just the stamina from the attacker and allowing a counterattack, with a slight speed boost for heavy attacks perhaps, so the one being parried cannot attack again without getting hit, but can defend perfectly fine.

With parry not giving access to free damage, something must be done to tip the scale slightly in favor of offence. I thinke even if you didn't do that fights would be better, although very long. To balance offence you can take several approaches. Many people like heavy chip damage from heavy attacks, that can only be negated by a parry. This makes light and heavy attacks more even and is a decent solution. Also with the change to parry it will be purely defensive, so no free stuff.

The next thing people Seem to hate is spamming. Mostly light attacks I guess, because spamming heavy attacks isn't a big issue. The light attack spam can be easily fixed. Make all guard changes on all characters 100% responsive and then remove the damage flinch from light attacks, so you're not locked in victim mode. Increasing stamina drain for consecutive attacks not in a combo is also an option.

I think GB is fine the way it is now. It counters dodge, which is good and with the added chip damage on heavy attack unless you parry, we will not have to rely so much on GB. The following play could be a result, heavy->feint, parry attempt->feint, dodge to try a counter leading to GB that can still be countered. That would be more viable, because baiting for a parry attempt on a feint will no longer be a viable offensive tool, which will balance feint.

Thise are just some suggestions, and they can be tweaked of course, but the main goal should be to open up gameplay a bit.

Once that basic gameplay works, some of the safe mixups needs to be balanced a bit, but generally small fixed will solve all those issues.

[Mr_Gallows]

Post your own ideas here

[Breikas.]

From another thread I posted in:

The defensive meta is actually easily fixed with two changes:
1. Chip damage should be raised substantially
2. A parry attempt should be a commitment and not be feintable.

This way a parry is a read, the same way a dodge or dodge attack is.
Dodging leaves you open for a guardbreak if the offender feinted and read your dodge. In return a dodge-attack beats guardbreak, but the dodge attack can also be parried if read correctly.

With these changes it would be viable to link attacks and feint in said attacks if you expect a parry. the game would be more about whiff punishes and getting attacks in at the right time.

[Mr_Gallows]

Yes Breikas some good points. I think if parry was changed so it wasn't dominating any longer cancelling a parry wouldn't be such an issue. Heavy chip damage on heavy attacks as you write, will allow a change to parry, so it doesn't do free damage, while parrying remains an important tool defensively.

I don't know of they're affraid the game will be too hard of you have to parry heavy attacks to avoid damage, but I think it would really open up the game and we could get away from the defensive meta where heavy attacks are too easy to punish by simply remaining passive.

[Netcode_err_404]

Yes Breikas some good points. I think if parry was changed so it wasn't dominating any longer cancelling a parry wouldn't be such an issue. Heavy chip damage on heavy attacks as you write, will allow a change to parry, so it doesn't do free damage, while parrying remains an important tool defensively.

I don't know of they're affraid the game will be too hard of you have to parry heavy attacks to avoid damage, but I think it would really open up the game and we could get away from the defensive meta where heavy attacks are too easy to punish by simply remaining passive.

At this point i'd like to hear what Ubisoft has in mind to fix this problem

[GreedMcTavish]

My 2 cents - increase chip damage for non-assassin characters and make dodge cost stamina. Alternatively, if dodge is not going to cost stamina then there should be a longer delay on being able to attack (think exhausted attack speed without being exhausted). This would be to simply reflect how impossible dodges like the ones in game are to pull off in real life while following up with a credible attack. Dodging should also not have invulnerability frames, you should have to pick the appropriate direction to dodge, not just "dodge". I am getting sick of getting someone stuck in a corner and when I attack they "dodge" in place and my character "misses". You also have things like the classic raider heavy attack going clean through the peacekeeper when they dodge in to it. Or abilities that snap like a shield bash in mid air. You're going to tell me that I dodged, but in mid air he changed directions and was still able to hit me with enough force to knock me down? That should never happen.

[Maaci]

Would like to hear from ubisoft as well at this point. If they think the game is pretty much-fine and make some small change only, then i will uninstall and never look back.
But discuss things until then could be a good thing.

Havent seen any comments yet about making combos available here. I would really like combos to be available since attacking once and then stopping compared to having the decision to do a 2-4 attack chain and then mixing it up afterwards and so on, would open up room for tactics and executions. And than in a later patch(the one after ubisoft fixes the core) we would see more mixups and more class specific combos, just more variation.


The other thing i wanna mention is the dodge and deflect.. There have been talk about it already but dont really see anyone mentioning this, and purely adding a stamina cost wont fix the "funamental problem". Really think deflect for assassins and dodge in general needs to change. A simple dodge without any attack is fine for those classes or some atleast, albeit a bit boring but could work on some specific classes(to have classes work different). However, when an attack exists within a class its troublesome, for both balance and design perspective.

If a slower character attacks, then instead of standing there and blocking or parrying the class just dodge and gets a free hit. The problem here is that
1) The slower character dont want to attack against this specific class. So it kinda halters the gameplay from him in a bad way. Doesnt mean it halters purely for slow hitting classes either btw, iam just using this as an example right here.
2) If parry gets changed to no-free-damage(which i agree with) then feinting won't do much since the assassin will do its attack and all the slower character can do is block or parry and the assassin pretty much has a low-risk-high-reward.

All in all, it feels really bad from a gameplay perspective. Even in live game where parry gives damage, its still a very boring feauture.

Suggestion:
Make sidestepping+attack only available after a parry
Make sidestepping+attack only available after x amount of blocks - This one could be cool but not sure its realistic for ubisoft to make something like this into the game.

Cant think of any better as of this moment

[Mr_Gallows]

The fix to light attack spam is easy. Remove damage flinch from lige attacks, so they do not hinder your ability to change guard. Next make all characters have instant guard change.