Conqueror actually needs it's shield crush buffed. | Forums

[Barboron]

Regardless of how much hate people put on the conqueror for getting shield bashed or crushed there are certain aspects of it that making it absolutely ****ing stupid:

• Warlord's headbutt seems to win out over a shield crush (really? someone's head going against my body weight being thrown at them)
• Warlord's headbutt can be spammed so frequently with too little of a stamina cost
• Follow up damage versus the Warlord is ******** considering your potentially further knockback and possibly knocking your target out of range
• In the event you miss, you can be left quite vulnerable while yet again, the Warlord has the advantage of being able to run a considerable distance greater with their shield charge, out of harm's way

I get that I am not the greatest conqueror and still have a bit to learn but from experience of using it, it just gets **** on by being so vulnerable while charging a heavy attack and not being able to counter guard break (so much for being a defensive character) along with the list above.

This is just speaking from personal experience, perhaps someone could give me some advice on how to counter this but I have found that dodging backwards is absolute horse ****. Versus a Warden I have literally done two back dodges and STILL got shoulder tackled into the inevitable light attack. Dodging left and right seems to be no good (my timing must suck) since it always goes into a guard break and yet again, I find the forward shield crush just isn't all that good to counter.

[TechnicalMystic]

Regardless of how much hate people put on the conqueror for getting shield bashed or crushed there are certain aspects of it that making it absolutely ****ing stupid:

• Warlord's headbutt seems to win out over a shield crush (really? someone's head going against my body weight being thrown at them)
• Warlord's headbutt can be spammed so frequently with too little of a stamina cost
• Follow up damage versus the Warlord is ******** considering your potentially further knockback and possibly knocking your target out of range
• In the event you miss, you can be left quite vulnerable while yet again, the Warlord has the advantage of being able to run a considerable distance greater with their shield charge, out of harm's way

I get that I am not the greatest conqueror and still have a bit to learn but from experience of using it, it just gets **** on by being so vulnerable while charging a heavy attack and not being able to counter guard break (so much for being a defensive character) along with the list above.

This is just speaking from personal experience, perhaps someone could give me some advice on how to counter this but I have found that dodging backwards is absolute horse ****. Versus a Warden I have literally done two back dodges and STILL got shoulder tackled into the inevitable light attack. Dodging left and right seems to be no good (my timing must suck) since it always goes into a guard break and yet again, I find the forward shield crush just isn't all that good to counter.

Mate, you are so right. Conquerors these days are so few and far between they may as well not even be there. I'm a Conqueror main myself and I played him in both betas and the full game and right now, he needs some serious buffs to make him a worthwhile choice in brawls and duels. I am 100% sure that he was stealth nerfed in the patch to "fix" his light attacks. What I noticed is that his attacks feel slower, light and heavy, making them so much easier to parry. Also, I feel his shield bash is a tad slower, too because now I've noticed more and more people dodging right out his SB + Heavy combo. They even do it when backed into a corner where they shouldn't be able to get out. He just feels so much slower and clumsier than he used to be. I've noticed that he can only do about five or six heavy attacks before running out of stamina; that's two SB + Heavy combos before he runs out of stamina. And you know how much damage that does? Less than two bars. He's described as "defensive", which is true to an extent, but both of his defensive moves (full-guard stance and charged heavy parry) leave him vulnerable to guardbreaks. And since he can't CGB them if they land it, it's a free heavy attack for everyone, and for most characters it guarantees a follow-up attack that usually ends in most of my health being destroyed. Oh and his little "hard hitter" description? HA! He does less damage than the Valkyrie after her buff. His charged heavy only does about one and a half to two bars. The Warden's top heavy does about the same damage as that. He's just so much harder and more boring to play now because he only shines in Dominion; and that's when he's knocking down the enemy while his teammate fights the enemy, and decimating soldiers with his zone attack. Ubisoft thinks a good zone attack against AI soldiers is a way to make him viable. Well he barely is. He seriously needs some buffs. The only characters I find that are significantly easier to be while using the Conqueror are the Valkyrie and Lawbringer. And even then, if the Valkyrie manages to do her sweeper combo and then hit you with a heavy while you're on the ground, it does around three bars of health. The Conqueror's highest damaging combo is two attacks, one the charged heavy, the other is the follow-up heavy if the charged isn't parried, and that does barely three bars of health. It's Ubisoft's way of making sure he can't kill an assassin with two hits in a single combo. In my opinion, if you're going to name someone "The Conqueror" and describe them as a "hard hitter", the least you could do is guarantee that his attacks do strong damage, which they don't. They might as well name him "The Kitten with a Flail and Weak Armour". If they were only going to buff him in one way, I would just pray and hope and switch to whatever religion required that they make his attacks unable to be parried, considering that the flail would just wrap around the sword and tear the blade off if it was even blocked. But considering Ubisoft never does anything to buff an underpowered character unless he's part of a huge meme (for example, Lord Tachanka), no buff will probably ever happen. To any other Conquerors out there, you have the coldest ice in your veins if you manage to level him to the max level at any time in the future.

[Simi_Xiamara_]

Buff it all you want if you make it so it can't knock you down in revenge mode same goes for wardens shoulder bash and warlords headbutt.

[C00tBAjenkins]

Mate, you are so right. Conquerors these days are so few and far between they may as well not even be there. I'm a Conqueror main myself and I played him in both betas and the full game and right now, he needs some serious buffs to make him a worthwhile choice in brawls and duels. I am 100% sure that he was stealth nerfed in the patch to "fix" his light attacks. What I noticed is that his attacks feel slower, light and heavy, making them so much easier to parry. Also, I feel his shield bash is a tad slower, too because now I've noticed more and more people dodging right out his SB + Heavy combo. They even do it when backed into a corner where they shouldn't be able to get out. He just feels so much slower and clumsier than he used to be.

I definitely noticed some change in speed. I kept thinking recently "why does he seem so fkn slow" He was never really that fast but it just feels like an extra frame or two has been added. Something feels off. Been my main from open beta. Still do ok with em though.

[Duskmare]

Mate, you are so right. Conquerors these days are so few and far between they may as well not even be there. I'm a Conqueror main myself and I played him in both betas and the full game and right now, he needs some serious buffs to make him a worthwhile choice in brawls and duels. I am 100% sure that he was stealth nerfed in the patch to "fix" his light attacks. What I noticed is that his attacks feel slower, light and heavy, making them so much easier to parry. Also, I feel his shield bash is a tad slower, too because now I've noticed more and more people dodging right out his SB + Heavy combo. They even do it when backed into a corner where they shouldn't be able to get out. He just feels so much slower and clumsier than he used to be. I've noticed that he can only do about five or six heavy attacks before running out of stamina; that's two SB + Heavy combos before he runs out of stamina. And you know how much damage that does? Less than two bars. He's described as "defensive", which is true to an extent, but both of his defensive moves (full-guard stance and charged heavy parry) leave him vulnerable to guardbreaks. And since he can't CGB them if they land it, it's a free heavy attack for everyone, and for most characters it guarantees a follow-up attack that usually ends in most of my health being destroyed. Oh and his little "hard hitter" description? HA! He does less damage than the Valkyrie after her buff. His charged heavy only does about one and a half to two bars. The Warden's top heavy does about the same damage as that. He's just so much harder and more boring to play now because he only shines in Dominion; and that's when he's knocking down the enemy while his teammate fights the enemy, and decimating soldiers with his zone attack. Ubisoft thinks a good zone attack against AI soldiers is a way to make him viable. Well he barely is. He seriously needs some buffs. The only characters I find that are significantly easier to be while using the Conqueror are the Valkyrie and Lawbringer. And even then, if the Valkyrie manages to do her sweeper combo and then hit you with a heavy while you're on the ground, it does around three bars of health. The Conqueror's highest damaging combo is two attacks, one the charged heavy, the other is the follow-up heavy if the charged isn't parried, and that does barely three bars of health. It's Ubisoft's way of making sure he can't kill an assassin with two hits in a single combo. In my opinion, if you're going to name someone "The Conqueror" and describe them as a "hard hitter", the least you could do is guarantee that his attacks do strong damage, which they don't. They might as well name him "The Kitten with a Flail and Weak Armour". If they were only going to buff him in one way, I would just pray and hope and switch to whatever religion required that they make his attacks unable to be parried, considering that the flail would just wrap around the sword and tear the blade off if it was even blocked. But considering Ubisoft never does anything to buff an underpowered character unless he's part of a huge meme (for example, Lord Tachanka), no buff will probably ever happen. To any other Conquerors out there, you have the coldest ice in your veins if you manage to level him to the max level at any time in the future.

I'm with you too, buddy. I'm a conqueror main and it seems like after the patch I just can't land a hit. I can't tell if it's just the guard break change or a stealth nerf that's done it. Without a reliable guard break to begin your heavy combo there's no way to get into it without parrying then guard breaking, faking the enemy out, or using the startup heavy attack guard (which is pretty damn difficult to time).
He also has so few combos and move choices that it pretty much just leaves him with his shield bash light attack combo, for minimal damage. Even that can be sidestepped pretty easily by any half-competent opponent...
The Conqueror needs serious buffing, or some new moves. Also, maybe it's just me, but is his 'superior block' ability just utter crap? I mean, if I swing at a shigoki or a warden and they block then my chain is interrupted. So, why does it pretend that's something special for the Conqueror...? If it could block unblockables then that would be a 'superior block', but at the moment it's just a normal block that adds about 100ms to the attacker's recovery time. In other words, it does nothing, because that tiny amount of time doesn't give you any advantage...

I think the Warlord's headbutt should be slowed down a bit. You barely get time to register it and dodge. The Warden's shoulder bash is fine, it's his cancel into a guard break that's over powered. Fix that and he'll be balanced. Revenge mode knockdowns don't really matter. They're only for 4v4 game modes, and it's activated pretty much only when it's a 2v1. So, they need the knockdown to buy themselves time in that situation.

[Shinimas]

Warlord is broken yes. Against a Warden you better dodge sideways... just like he has to do against a Conq. Conq vs Warden is like a 100% win for Conq since you're immune to to shoulder bash into double light if you use allguard.

Conq is a solid A tier character. A good PK and Warlord will destroy you, but that's those classes. The only problems Conq has is that he can't finish people off with a heavy attack, which is pretty silly considering how easy it is to run in this game and regenerate. That and the fact his playstyle is extremely boring and limited.

If it could block unblockables then that would be a 'superior block', but at the moment it's just a normal block that adds about 100ms to the attacker's recovery time. In other words, it does nothing, because that tiny amount of time doesn't give you any advantage...

Except that you can block some heavies to get a guaranteed guard break. Superior block is useful.

if I swing at a shigoki or a warden and they block then my chain is interrupted. So, why does it pretend that's something special for the Conqueror...?

...because you interrupt heavy chains and don't get staggered at all when blocking those?

He also has so few combos and move choices that it pretty much just leaves him with his shield bash light attack combo, for minimal damage. Even that can be sidestepped pretty easily by any half-competent opponent...

Which is why you mix it up and sometimes wait a bit and guard break after they dodge without following up your dash with a shield bash.

[croute_chef]

Warlord is broken yes. Against a Warden you better dodge sideways... just like he has to do against a Conq. Conq vs Warden is like a 100% win for Conq since you're immune to to shoulder bash into double light if you use allguard.

Conq is a solid A tier character. A good PK and Warlord will destroy you, but that's those classes. The only problems Conq has is that he can't finish people off with a heavy attack, which is pretty silly considering how easy it is to run in this game and regenerate. That and the fact his playstyle is extremely boring and limited.



Except that you can block some heavies to get a guaranteed guard break. Superior block is useful.



...because you interrupt heavy chains and don't get staggered at all when blocking those?



Which is why you mix it up and sometimes wait a bit and guard break after they dodge without following up your dash with a shield bash.

IMO conq is not A tier because of multiple little problems : he lacks damages

in example, his heavy is the worst of the game, only 23 damages, like you said he can't finish a fight with it, but it get worse, he also has the worst Guard Break of the game in term of damages ... and the worst parry (in a game where parrying is VERY strong)

another example is his light attack : slow but it wouldn't be a problem if it was only 12 damages if you trade with an opponent (that hapens a lot ) he out damages you ....

So to be victorious you have to guess right more time than your opponent and even if you manage to get his health down to 25 HP he have to make TWO mistakes/wrong choices for you to win ...

So yeah he definitely needs a buff.

[The_Mensan]

Are you actually complaining about a top character (top 4) not being as strong as the other top 4s?

Maybe NONE of you should have a safe / unpunishable Unblockable into a light repeatable wall trap?

WTF? What kind of top 4 privilege thinking is this? No, you shouldn't have a harder to punish unblockable. Heroes like Orochi don't even have unblockables outside of a punish. Your unblockable into light attack is a trap against a wall and just as broken as Warden vortex.

Do you not realize that no one should THRIVE to be like Warden / Warlord because they are literally the most OP heroes in the game? If anything Conqueror needs a nerf and not a boost.

[croute_chef]

Are you actually complaining about a top character (top 4) not being as strong as the other top 4s?

Maybe NONE of you should have a safe / unpunishable Unblockable into a light repeatable wall trap?

WTF? What kind of top 4 privilege thinking is this? No, you shouldn't have a harder to punish unblockable. Heroes like Orochi don't even have unblockables outside of a punish. Your unblockable into light attack is a trap against a wall and just as broken as Warden vortex.

Do you not realize that no one should THRIVE to be like Warden / Warlord because they are literally the most OP heroes in the game? If anything Conqueror needs a nerf and not a boost.

ok shield bash isn't OP here is why :
- shield bash after a dash doesn't wall splat so no wall pressing after dash
- small garantee after if no wall splat
- safe ( low risk low reward) it is fair
- takes a moderate amount of stamina
- step on reaction is possible (not like warlord)

Now lets talk about wall splat :
- it is situationnal
- you can step shield bash (so easy with orochi by the way)
- if you do step + attack there is nothing conq can do except guard or parry ... so nothing garantee just mind game
- and come on if you have taken a HEAVY on guard or on hit, the conq deserve to have options to continue his pressing

honestly at high level almost all of my shield bashes are stepped.

[Shinimas]

IMO conq is not A tier because of multiple little problems : he lacks damages

in example, his heavy is the worst of the game, only 23 damages, like you said he can't finish a fight with it, but it get worse, he also has the worst Guard Break of the game in term of damages ... and the worst parry (in a game where parrying is VERY strong)

another example is his light attack : slow but it wouldn't be a problem if it was only 12 damages if you trade with an opponent (that hapens a lot ) he out damages you ....

So to be victorious you have to guess right more time than your opponent and even if you manage to get his health down to 25 HP he have to make TWO mistakes/wrong choices for you to win ...

So yeah he definitely needs a buff.

He has weaknesses, he has strengths. Shield bash into light is good reliable offense, good dodge confirm via the same shield bash, unique punishes on certain blocked attacks (e.g. Orochi zone). I mean, sure, he's basically a poor man's Warlord, but Warlord is insane. Conq is near the top, although definitely not the top in 1v1. You want to talk actually bad characters - take a look at Lawbringer, Kensei and Raider. Conq is also great in 4v4, but we aren't talking about that, I assume.

I think his shield bash needs to be more punishable, but his mixups need to be buffed. E.g. his allguard feints need to be made better, his allguard needs to be made faster and more consistent, it has a weird delay right now. I also think his top heavy needs to 1shot low HP people so they die if you wallstun them, which is fair imo. Bottom line, they need to nerf his shield bash but make the rest of his kit better because Conq is very one dimensional right now, even though he has a lot of potential thanks to allguard making it possible to feint lights.