Legendary difficulty with PUGs is some of the least fun I've ever in a video game | Forums

[Nightfall--]

Spent almost a full work day's worth trying to complete the legendary missions and they are some of the most tedious, unfun, unrewarding and frustrating missions I've ever played in any game.
Players rush in Rambo style, have no sense of tactics or self preservation, don't/can't listen to instructions and don't employ basic tactics. After a wipe they go back in head forward and die in the same way. Maybe I'm just unlucky with matchmaking, but after 4 hours trying to complete Warrengate it's starting to look more like a pattern rather than bad luck. And please, "git gud" doesn't work if you're the only one getting gud in a party of 4 people. Hopefully this will be alleviated as people realize they are a lot more squishy with the new update but it is definitely a huge problem atm.
And then there's mission design and the enemies.
Why is Napalm Production burning floor by floor at the final encounter just like the normal mission? Why is there a timer in Warrengate? Why only one checkpoint in 1hr+ long missions? This is just lazy resource reutilization and artificial, frustrating difficulty. The base missions were copied with just the enemies changed; which may be alright if not for the nonsensical restrictions. At the very least get rid or double the timer in Warrengate.
The mobs are sponges with laser accuracy and ridiculous damage/speed. The 'don't get close' philosophy doesn't work if they rush you down and insta down you; they run around like olympic athletes or spam grenades that instantly detonate or push you out of cover; all encounters are overly drawn out and take forever which only makes checkpoint placement ****tier. What most groups I've seen do is try to cheese the AI. That's not even remotely interesting or fun. Some of these are age-old problems in the base game aswell but here they are severely accentuated.
And as if fighting the ridiculous mobs isn't enough, you have to fight the game backend as well - lag causing skill activation problems, revives not working and phasing enemies.
And finally, the rewards. Which are largely not worth it since they imply another layer of RNG. After doing all 3 legendary missions I got nothing really useful: a **** rolled Barret's, a **** rolled Hildr and a bottom 10% damage Bullfrog.
All in all this smells like soon to be dead content. I'd be surprised if people kept running these missions in their current state a few weeks from now. I know I won't (probably with the exception of Times Square which is the only decent one due to having lots of open space to maneuver around and being the shortest of them all) - unless they add more checkpoints, get rid of the legacy mission restrictions and tweak the enemies. I don't have that much time to play and would rather do literally anything else than go through all that again.
And don't even get me started on the current state of the incursions.
</rant>

[knighted__TTV]

I booted up 1.6 for the first time yesterday and did Napalm on legendary with 3 randos.

3 of us werent using mics (including me) and the 4th guy had a mic and called all the shots.We only wiped once right at the beginning then the rest of it was smooth sailing.

The guy on the mic looked like he knew this mission inside out. He knew all the choke points to funnel the AI into. It's a pretty easy mission tbh. Just need a good sniper and an AR. 99% of the time we were just sniping and chipping away enemy health.

I was using 4pc nomad with vigorous and specialized. Nothing recalibrated from 1.5.

[PostCarnage]

Spent almost a full work day's worth trying to complete the legendary missions and they are some of the most tedious, unfun, unrewarding and frustrating missions I've ever played in any game.
Players rush in Rambo style, have no sense of tactics or self preservation, don't/can't listen to instructions and don't employ basic tactics. After a wipe they go back in head forward and die in the same way. Maybe I'm just unlucky with matchmaking, but after 4 hours trying to complete Warrengate it's starting to look more like a pattern rather than bad luck. And please, "git gud" doesn't work if you're the only one getting gud in a party of 4 people. Hopefully this will be alleviated as people realize they are a lot more squishy with the new update but it is definitely a huge problem atm.
And then there's mission design and the enemies.
Why is Napalm Production burning floor by floor at the final encounter just like the normal mission? Why is there a timer in Warrengate? Why only one checkpoint in 1hr+ long missions? This is just lazy resource reutilization and artificial, frustrating difficulty. The base missions were copied with just the enemies changed; which may be alright if not for the nonsensical restrictions. At the very least get rid or double the timer in Warrengate.
The mobs are sponges with laser accuracy and ridiculous damage/speed. The 'don't get close' philosophy doesn't work if they rush you down and insta down you; they run around like olympic athletes or spam grenades that instantly detonate or push you out of cover; all encounters are overly drawn out and take forever which only makes checkpoint placement ****tier. What most groups I've seen do is try to cheese the AI. That's not even remotely interesting or fun. Some of these are age-old problems in the base game aswell but here they are severely accentuated.
And as if fighting the ridiculous mobs isn't enough, you have to fight the game backend as well - lag causing skill activation problems, revives not working and phasing enemies.
And finally, the rewards. Which are largely not worth it since they imply another layer of RNG. After doing all 3 legendary missions I got nothing really useful: a **** rolled Barret's, a **** rolled Hildr and a bottom 10% damage Bullfrog.
All in all this smells like soon to be dead content. I'd be surprised if people kept running these missions in their current state a few weeks from now. I know I won't (probably with the exception of Times Square which is the only decent one due to having lots of open space to maneuver around and being the shortest of them all) - unless they add more checkpoints, get rid of the legacy mission restrictions and tweak the enemies. I don't have that much time to play and would rather do literally anything else than go through all that again.
And don't even get me started on the current state of the incursions.
</rant>

This is why I joined a solid clan of people who want to be good at the game and are. We pretty much took the 1.5 builds we had, threw a bit of stuff around on it, and beat them pretty much first try. They're hard, but man are they fun. There is nothing like ****ting your pants when a dude charges you that you weren't expecting. I love that the AI actually surprises me when I do things. But Legendary honestly isn't that tough. Fun as hell, but not that tough.

[FupasMaximus93]

I agree, but i wont even try with a PUG. The **** is annoying when im playing with friends, i can only imagine the struggle random, no mics cause. zknight4, it sounds like you got incredibly lucky lol. The grind wouldnt be bad if you actually got good gear, but its all the same rng as anywhere else, just with a guaranteed exotic in the mix. Feels so unrewarding for the hell you just went through. Ill play them for the cosmetics, then i likely wont touch them again.

[FilteredName]

You seem to have just had bad luck, first 2 trys on Naplam and team left after sitting in same spot dying several times

since that 3 napalm, 2 Times and 1 Warren wins in a row all with random people.

The gear is normal but you get the special cache which gives named gear and best of all LMB pants and shirt lol

[Voronja_SaVi]

How do you kill the bullet proof boss @ Times Square?

[NOTr083r73h]

How do you kill the bullet proof boss @ Times Square?

Pop he's ammo box on the backpack.

[Lazeerer]

Legendary with Quick matchmaking is so much harder then UG was in 1.3.. Remember how many people said back then UG was too hard to do with Matching on heroic. So i totally understand what your saying OP about this but disagree that it will be dead content.I played Tactitian back then if i was Match making with randoms as it was required pretty much to have a strong smartcover back then for UG Hero mode. I feel that is the key hear too for Matchmaking with randoms.


I too fell into a couple of those Matchmake groups that you speak of when no one wants to listen, no one wants to put there skills down "Or forget too" a couple feeling they can rambo face tank in this mode and constantly get bodied and some just sit there for the ride and barely do anything.Ive seen it all before When you try to talk to them they either dont answer or leave group. Its frustrating.

MPC_postal is Correct. If you want to assure this never happens anymore the best thing to do is join a clan. Its the safest bet to winning.


However many dont want to join a clan but are still great players.I'll give a couple tips that maybe you dint know and can try that ive learned to make winning harder content more pleasurable.


Dont use Quick Matchmake. Go into regional chat at the Hub/Boo and ask the chat if anyone is down for a legendary mode run. (Similar to how you find a group for HVT's weeklies) The Majority of the time these players are good or at the very least will chat and communicate with you to give you a far better experience when playing and a better chance to win. Sure it might take you 5 to 10 minutes to find a group but it will save you hours of failing with random players that dont know what they are doing.

While it is possible to Quick Match a Legendary Mission and it goes well, its still very early on in the Patch and many haven't got a feel for it. So i bet alot of the player trying out legendary mode dont yet have a feel for it and haven't adjusted. i can tell you the first few times i did legendary mode on the PTS with all good players it wasn't a cake walk but it also wasnt super hard either. (Those that dont play the game as much as some of us need a little more time i guess to adapt) So unless you get lucky this earlyand get at least 1 good player that knows the mission besides you on the team its going to be a rough ride.


If you do Quick Matchmake for the mission, talk and chat with your group before starting the mission. Ask what their builds are and change out skills to make sure you have a good balance with the group.If your not happy with what your seeing and they are unwilling to change there skills or maybe even there build around "Or your build doesn't fit the group you quick matched for" then leave and matchmake again.

If you want to Quick Matchmake then i highly recommand you play the healer roll. Either Reclaimer healer or Tac healer with a very strong smartcover and support can. This is about the best you can do if your with randoms to better the odds to winning.
When i Quick matchmake and play my reclamier build with 45% smartcover and ~15K Health Ticks from my support can the other players in my group even if they are not communicating or playing as a team my build tends to balance that out and we get a win. Alot of times you will find with matchmaking everyone runs DPS builds. So you being the healer helps.

Yesterday i tried to play Napalm with my striker Build on my 2nd alt with a Quick Matchmaked group and it wasn't happening. Failed everytime right before the mid checkpoint. Wasted like 2 hours over it. 2 fails on the first group then 2people left and we got 2 more randoms that we made it almost to the check point then failed. In all these fails if i was playing my reclamier build we would have won with 99% certainty.

Even having 2 good players on the team that are communicating its not enough without a healer in the group that is on point. Not everyone can play a healer roll. YOu really have to be on point in legendary more. I found that out yesterday playing my striker and we had someone on our team playing reclaimer. Always forgetting to put the support can down,never popping his sig and only self healing himself with Difib.


Legendary mode while to me is alot of fun and reminds me of the good old day of How tough Underground use to be, it is very challenging to alot of player. Everyone needs to play a roll and complement each other builds and most important play serious its nothing like goofing around running lex where you dont really need to pay attention to whats going on. Got to be on point in this mode. Change up skills if needed and work together. if all 4 people in the group are running DPS its not going to go well. Can it be done? Sure but its going to be rough. You dont need 4 players running pulse and boostershot.lol

One player as the healer with a strong Smartcover and support can,1 sentry build and the other 2 builds can be DPS or DPS hybrid with one as DPS with higher skill power to run a 2nd support can as it goes better with 2 support cans in the group. Everyone should be running combat medic. Thats not to say the other 2 build have to be full DPS cookie cutter but just saying that you need to have DMG on at least 2 of the 4 players. Sentry helps alot but again its not a must. A healer is a Must IMO. Use cover and stay close together with your team.

Should get better though. Give it a week or 2 and you will find it much better when quick matchmaking. But for now, stick to asking the chat at the Hub/Boo for a group to do legendary mode.

[Nightfall--]

This is why I joined a solid clan of people who want to be good at the game and are. We pretty much took the 1.5 builds we had, threw a bit of stuff around on it, and beat them pretty much first try.

Dont use Quick Matchmake. Go into regional chat at the Hub/Boo and ask the chat if anyone is down for a legendary mode run. (Similar to how you find a group for HVT's weeklies) The Majority of the time these players are good or at the very least will chat and communicate with you to give you a far better experience when playing and a better chance to win. Sure it might take you 5 to 10 minutes to find a group but it will save you hours of failing with random players that dont know what they are doing

I guess my main takeaway from this is: why so much focus on raid level content? PvE players have been asking for more to do and get this stuff that seems aimed at the hardcore 1%. Don't get me wrong, it's awesome to have anything for anyone but this takes me to my next point.

What about the players who just want to plug and play? What do we get? Since challenging difficulty, there's has been nothing. UG boots you out on wipe and anything outside single phase operations requires a moderate to highly coordinated+structured party, incursions require high coordination as well, legendary same. Doing hard/challenging missions over and over gets old at some point. What about the people who don't want to spend probably a sizeable chunk of their playtime LFG-ing in chat, don't have the time to invest in a clan (or don't want to), are too shy or any combination of all these? Where do we get our exotic caches outside of the singular weekly one?

Am I really a minority here? Would be nice to know cause I really really want to play more of this game, but if people like me that come tired from work and don't have 40 hour+ weekly playtimes do not have a place in the current trend... Well, would be nice to know so I can pack my bags .

[Voronja_SaVi]

Pop he's ammo box on the backpack.

He must of been glitched. I tried that. We all did. Lol! I bet that was the last wave as well. Bugger!