The revenge stats need to be removed from gear outright. | Forums

[Divenity]

Buffing the other stats would be bad...Gear being too strong is a problem, a very big problem, the other stats are fine as they are, the revenge stats are the ones what have problems - and revenge is perfectly balanced without modifiers, so they shouldn't exist.

[meppho]

When talking balance I always assume an equal and high skill level among all players involved, in that situation, it is unwinnable... Low skill levels are the only place where it is winnable, where you can spam zone attacks to victory because people don't know how to block.

This is false. I've won many 1v2s and more 3v1s than I expected, without revenge stacking.
I'd be surprised if people talking here ever noticed a parry when spammed automatically parries all other attacks in a short timeframe. Once you get used to it it's actually easier than what it looks, unless one of the gankers is spamming guard breaks on you (which is much more ******ed than revenge, if you ask me. It is also effective while on revenge itself) or you get hit and chained until dead (a peacekeeper and berserker can easily do that, for instance).

The only problems I can see with gear as it stands are 2 stats: revenge gain and revive speed.
Revenge gain brings us to a disparity which shouldn't exist (the compensation for being lower in number should be equal for everyone), and the numbers on top of this are too high (it shouldn't proc in 1v1, ever, imho).
Revive speed goes pretty much the same. It would make sense if reviving times were longer by default, but it's already too fast without any buff from gear so it makes little sense as it is.

[Divenity]

This is false. I've won many 1v2s and more 3v1s than I expected, without revenge stacking.
I'd be surprised if people talking here ever noticed a parry when spammed automatically parries all other attacks in a short timeframe.

Yeah... you don't have to spam it, it just does that on it's own.

The only problems I can see with gear as it stands are 2 stats: revenge gain and revive speed.

So, you don't think revenge attack is broken? Letting the person with revenge do so much damage that they can 2 shot someone is balanced? lol.

[OokiireteHoshii]

Revenge just wins games, this looks like playing with terminators when you witness a character filling the revenge meter a second time before the PREVIOUS revenge state even ended in 1v1 (i **** you not) you know they ****ed it up. just as the good guys above said, revenge is already powerful itself, this way team games becomes "who gets revenge faster owns the match"
I lost count the times that i had the upper hand and won but NO!, EAT MY REVENGE.

[meppho]

Yeah... you don't have to spam it, it just does that on it's own.

I meant "spammed" as in "by random attacks". I phrased it ambigously to check your answer, I even had a video ready to show the single press -> 3 parries.

So, you don't think revenge attack is broken? Letting the person with revenge do so much damage that they can 2 shot someone is balanced? lol.

Nope, I don't. Revenge's most powerful features are the global parry on activation and the uninterruptible attacks. Then the extra health. You don't mind the little extra damage on top of the already increased damage, as long as you don't get hit.[*]
The increased damage and defense on revenge are stats you choose to carry on your equip instead of others, they should be meaningful but not so much to ecplise the other available chioces. I find that to be the case (I.E. thrown distance can be very strong and it's passively active instead of requiring a bar to fill in order to be effective).

At that point you could argue every stat should be removed.


On top of all that, 4v4 are the weakest game modes, from skirmish which is basically Call of Honor to Zergminion where CoD meets League of Legends. This makes gear issues less prominent, as the good modes are unaffected.

P.S.
Dominion was actually good in beta, where people played it "properly". It is a pity, but also inevitable like berserkers only spamming dodge r1 in duels and ragequitting at 2-0 (or the likes, just a random example).

[*] Edit
And let's be very clear, if you're in a Xv1 and not the one, it's entirely your fault for getting hit, and the guy on revenge has very little time to dispatch you while under spam by the ganksquad. Even in a 2v1 you could die while executing a guy from the simple spam of the second guy, if he's a character that does enough damage (I.E. Raider).

[Divenity]

Dominion was actually good in beta, where people played it "properly".

It was good in beta when people only had grey quality gear, which doesn't modify stats enough to even be noticeable.

[meppho]

It was good in beta when people only had grey quality gear, which doesn't modify stats enough to even be noticeable.

I feel you're just making excuses for your poor performance now.
Gear doesn't make people contest points instead of randomly zerg around the map or running like headless chickens whenever they go below 20% hp.

[edit]
I didn't want to say this as it sound spiteful, but I never had issues with geared people, even when I was "gray" against the first 108s I saw.
In fact I kept looking for them, expecting to find experienced people that would wreck my *** in yet unseen ways, generally being disappointed and ending up laughing at them.
The only issues I ever had are, as I said, revenge gain (which is wrong in principle and badly balanced) and revive speed.

[Divenity]

I feel you're just making excuses for your poor performance now.
Gear doesn't make people contest points instead of randomly zerg around the map or running like headless chickens whenever they go below 20% hp.

[edit]
I didn't want to say this as it sound spiteful, but I never had issues with geared people, even when I was "gray" against the first 108s I saw.
In fact I kept looking for them, expecting to find experienced people that would wreck my *** in yet unseen ways, generally being disappointed and ending up laughing at them.
The only issues I ever had are, as I said, revenge gain (which is wrong in principle and badly balanced) and revive speed.

I do just fine for myself, this is ALL coming from the perspective of someone (me) who is stacking revenge gear himself and feels like it is stupidly overpowered - there is no other viable stat to stack, it is far too powerful.

I get teamed up on, I can pop revenge, knock everyone down, 2 shot one of them before anyone gets up from prone, and then 2 shot the next person off a parry, it feels absurd, this is not something I should be able to do, and wouldn't if revenge stats were not on gear. I can and do also regularly get revenge in 1v1 fights, which feels broken as all hell.

Revenge gain is not the only problem, revenge attack increases damage to an insane degree, it's like having the damage bonus from revenge twice, I should not be able to take off 60% of someone health with 1 heavy or a double top light combo on an Orochi, that is not balance.

Revenge is strong enough without any modifiers at all, it does not need more, this is from the perspective of the revenge user, not someone fighting them.

I would also like to point out that the old "just run when they pop revenge" thing doesn't work if the person who didn't is low gear level, because myself and most others are also stacking sprint speed, and they will never get away.

[meppho]

I get teamed up on, I can pop revenge, knock everyone down, 2 shot one of them before anyone gets up from prone, and then 2 shot the next person off a parry, it feels absurd, this is not something I should be able to do, and wouldn't if revenge stats were not on gear. I can and do also regularly get revenge in 1v1 fights, which feels broken as all hell.

If someone gets knocked down on your activation it is his fault and should be punished. If the second guy gets parried, the same applies. Having a gear difference SHOULD have an impact. Requiring 2 hits instead of 3 IS a significant yet not game-breaking impact.
It feels broken as hell because in that scenario both your opponents are failing everything they can. If once you knocked down the first dude the second would simply interrupt you (by guardbreaking after activation, before you actually wing the attack, or with any special move like shoulder bash) things would change dramatically.
By the same logic GB should be removed because not everyone manages to escape them.

Revenge gain is not the only problem, revenge attack increases damage to an insane degree, it's like having the damage bonus from revenge twice, I should not be able to take off 60% of someone health with 1 heavy or a double top light combo on an Orochi, that is not balance.

Then why is it fine that Raider can selfbuff and oneshot with just a feat? If you'd do that damage normally, I'd agree. Instead it's very evident when you gain enough revenge to activate it, and you're a golden beacon (even the proper icon flashes) when on revenge itself. Everyone is aware that for a short time you're over nine thousand. If they don't react to that it's their fault.

Revenge is strong enough without any modifiers at all, it does not need more, this is from the perspective of the revenge user, not someone fighting them.

I agree that it is strong enough without modifiers. I disagree that the difference made by modifiers makes it broken. This comes from someone NOT stacking revenge who has no issues with people like you.


[edit]
I'm going to bed, you'll have to wait until this evening for an answer of mine if you want to drag this on. Cheers.

[Divenity]

If someone gets knocked down on your activation it is his fault and should be punished. If the second guy gets parried, the same applies. Having a gear difference SHOULD have an impact.

Unavoidable death should not be punishment for a single knockdown or parry.

If once you knocked down the first dude the second would simply interrupt you (by guardbreaking after activation before you actually wing the attack,

If i'm in an attack animation they cannot guardbreak me, they try, regularly. The person who doesn't get knocked down is usually in recovery from their attacks and can't GB in time, or was in the middle of a chain that they couldn't cancel in time after the previous hit gave me Revenge and gets knocked down too. The first person who gets knocked down gets it because he was mid swing when the other guy gave me Revenge and it was already too late.

or with any special move like shoulder bash) things would change dramatically.

This assumes one of the characters involved has such a move, many don't.

By the same logic GB should be removed because not everyone manages to escape them.

No it doesn't.

Then why is it fine that Raider can selfbuff and oneshot with just a feat?

Many would argue it isn't, this is a separate issue. I'd personally rather the feats weren't a thing either, mostly the catapult, I feel like 100% cheese when I use that thing.

This comes from someone NOT stacking revenge who has no issues with people like you.

Well maybe the revenge stackers you face are just awful?