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Okay so I have been talking with a lot of people and the answer finally hit me. It is very simple, and would not be hard to implement.
In order to fix this meta of people never wanting to attack first, and also the issue of guard breaks being basically useless, too easy to counter, and having no real incentive outside of EXTREMELY low level play, this is what needs to happen.
Make guard breaks attempts do a SMALL amount of damage. That is, that if you guard break someone, and they counter it(or don't), make the initial uppercut/strike do maybe like 5 damage. I think that may be the perfect number but if not, just make it do whatever number of damage seems necessary. Might need a lower number, might not, but in my mind, 5 would be very fair.
Now, this is why I suggest this and this is why it WILL work. If you watch two decent players fight, not even high level just above average. There will be times when both players stand right in front of each other face to face, doing nothing because they know reacting to block someone is extremely easy, and if they are playing someone like Warlord or Conqueror, it is even easier with all guard stance. They also know that a guard break counter is EASY to perform, and now, with the GB mechanics reverted, it will be even EASIER, with no punish for getting guard broken in the startup animation of your own GB.
If you implemented damage to the initial GB strike, this would add a whole new dimension to the game and cause people to play smarter. Spacing between two opponents would become much more important, similar to how it is important in any other fighting game and in real life(I know its just a game, I'm just making a point). As of right now, spacing is this game means pretty much nothing. You shouldn't be completely safe by letting someone stand nose to nose with you, it doesn't make sense.
The other good thing that will come from this is that it will FORCE people to take ACTION. If you DO get in close range with someone, you cannot just stand there and wait. The fact that a GB attempt will do 5 dmg will force people to either commit to a light attack sooner(since a light will beat a GB), or try to commit to their own GB, so there will not be any issue with someone walking and and spamming GB just for the "free" dmg because they will easily be punished by a light, or even a well timed heavy.
I want to make it clear that I think that whoever is hit by the guard break, whether they counter it or not, should take a SMALL amount of damage. So even in those situations where someone hit GB a bit slower than another person did, yes then can still counter, but they will still take the SMALL amount of damage.
Thats pretty much it. It is a simple thing to patch in, and it fixes multiple issues within the core of the game itself. Anyone who understands this and agrees with me should comment and help get this post to the top and noticed. As of right now, the game is in a really bad place and I think this is the only thing that can save it. EVERY character will become more viable, and the overly defensive/broken characters like Warlord and Conqueror wont be able to just turtle the whole round without you ever being able to touch them.
Go watch decent people playing and you will see that this is what is currently happening. Defense is too strong, and it is ruining the flow of the game play. Certain classes who rely on GB are being given up on, and the the classes that can realistically can ONLY be opened up by a GB are entirely too strong.
Think about it: in what world do you get punched in the nose 50 times and nothing bad comes of it? It only makes sense that this initial attack of a GB would do SOME amount of damage.
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Lol I like it but it sounds a bit too harsh for the people who are already crying about GB being too powerful. I'm good with it just being a free normal punish, but I think making it do a little bit of damage is rewarding on both sides. It encourages people do DO something when they are in close quarters, and it becomes more about prediction and mind games.Originally Posted by coloss3070 Go to original post
You throw out a light all the time in close range to prevent being GB hit, but that opens you up to being blocked, parried and sidestepped.
You throw out a GB in close range to try and get that initial GB damage and possible full GB, but that opens you up to lights, faster GB attempts from the opponent, and even a heavy if you time it wrong.
This will also even out those looooong stressful matches where a person does nothing but turtle and abuse the all block mechanic. I'm not sure if you main Conqueror but if you've ever played that matchup, Conq vs Conq, you will agree how stupid it is.
Senior Member
I don't like even small damage off a single button press that is also just countered by a single button press.
The reason people are defensive is because you can get GB from parry and similar safe damage from not attacking. This needs to be adressed.
GB really isn't the solution to the core game not working very well. The game could have a deep combat system, with the three-way attack/defence system. Resolving issues through a one button skill may work, but it's also not supporting the very core of gameplay. It just hides the fact that it is broken.
I appreciate everyone writing their ideas here, because something must be done. Although people have different ideas, most agree what the problem is.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...e-of-For-Honor
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You know that I agree with you about the core of For Honor, but you need to agree and realize that them completely changing the core of the game is probably not going to happen. It would be too much work for them, and it would completely throw everyone off. My suggestion is very reasonable, it can be implemented quickly, and it would work. Thats the way this game works, one thing counters another, thats called balance. If GB worked the way I suggested, it would solve multiple problems, and it would still be balanced. There would be no way to abuse anything, and people would be forced to stop playing overly defensive.Originally Posted by Mr_Gallows Go to original post
This game isn't just rock paper scissors because there is also timing and spacing involved, but essentially all games ARE rock paper scissors, just more complex. Dodging beats attacks, GB beats dodging, attacks beat GB etc.... Really think about my suggestion and visualize it and you will see that is is a very good idea.
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I agree, Arkohs. I mean I pretty much only play duel and brawl because I don't like the idea of powerups in this game, or gear that gives advantages over people. I hate games that rely on item pick ups and what level you are. I like to play games and win or lose based on raw skill, so I tend to stay away from 4v4 game modes.Originally Posted by Arkhos1988 Go to original post
I even wish there was a way to remove revenge from 2v2 and 1v1 because I feel it doesn't belong there. The 4v4 mode is definitely very broken and needs a lot of tweaking as well. I ran into a person who had full sprint speed and he literally just ran away the whole match and we couldn't catch him. It was the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
I do appreciate that you can see the logic in my suggestion. I'm telling you, it would definitely solve a lot of issues that people are complaining about. I can get through people's defense as well but that doesn't mean that it is not EXTREMELY difficult, especially with certain warriors like Lawbringer. If you start to play high level 2v2 and 1v1, you will REALLY see what I mean about overly defensive play.
If we don't move out of this defensive meta, only certain heroes are going to be viable. Everyone will be playing Warlord, Conqueror, Peacekeeper, and Warden. Aside from those characters, no one else really has guaranteed ways to get in and do decent damage.
Senior Member
Your idea could work, but it would only give an incentive to do GB first. Using heavy attacks will still be very gimped, the very core blocking mechanic will still be bad and parry will still be too great an offensive tool.
But yes, I see your solution and I really agree with the idea that we need to present ideas that are viable for a patch. Fixing the core can be done and although is is slightly more work than your idea - it's very doable without having to change everything else
So yes I see it - I just want them to do more. I could see your idea as a very good temporary solution for sure and maybe even as a part of the greater more permanent solution.
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I agree that this sounds like a good idea. It would force people to attack more and speed up combat significantly. If people continued playing like they do, they would slowly get chipped down by guard breaks until they had to start throwing out attacks.
Though I still think the larger issue is parrying. Only certain heroes should have true parry follow ups. Getting a free GB off of a heavy on every hero is really stupid and just shouldn't be a thing.
