1. #1

    The Warden. An apology and proof that a fix is needed.

    Hello everyone, I would like to start off with an apology. Recently I made an ignorant response on the forums to a post concerning the Warden and his capabilities. The post revolved around the Warden being able to land a top heavy attack (which does 40 dmg) after obtaining a parry. I made this response due to the fact that I had never witnessed this action during my time of play on the Xbox One. I belittled his statement and attempted to "educate" him on the Warden and for that I apologize to said person and the rest of those who have experienced this. There has also been complaints pertaining to his shoulder bash, again, I have not witnessed the full try hard effect of the Warden on my console experience.

    But located here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-v-PsyB69w is the capabilities of a Warden, that I cannot simply stand by. I main the Warden and I love the character, but after watching True Talent exploit this maneuver the way he does, I simply can't look at my favorite character the same as he is. I would simply suggest removing the ability to guard break someone, making it a straight forward technique similar to that of Conqueror shield bash. I don't mind the ability to cancel it. But the shoulder bash being able to have so much utility is absurd. I will not make an argument towards his top light attack and his zone attack. These 2 are essential to even landing any kind of damage against turtle or assassin characters. But the vortex effect definitely needs some form of fix.
     2 people found this helpful
    Share this post

  2. #2
    ThePollie's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    1,163
    A shocking display of maturity for a Ubisoft forum, I must say.

    Bravo.
    Share this post

  3. #3
    All I know is when a warden tries to spam his vortex like that against me he usually gets worked over..maybe thats why I don't see it as an issue because though I've had it used against me a lot It's never been a huge issue. No more than any of the other classes annoying features, especially spam ones. They may get one quick/easy kill on me but past that I know the vortex is the main weapon in their arsenal and fight accordingly.
     2 people found this helpful
    Share this post

  4. #4
    Gray360UK's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    2,815
    So in the first round he gets killed by the other Warden.
    To me that kinda proves his Warden or whatever he does with it isn't OP / broken.

    The Nobushi was bad and never used distance to stay out of reach, was literally toe to toe fighting with the Warden despite having a 6ft spear. The Nobushi was one decent bit of play away from winning. My Nobushi would have been backwards evading with the move that thrusts the spear forward, poisons, and keeps you out of GB range.

    Bad opponents, bad examples.
    If you can get a Warden within 1 hit of death he is not some sort of invulnerable God because of an exploit move.

    Weird that you seem to overlook when he does really badly, but call it broken when he does well?

    If he had won all of the rounds without a scratch you might have a point, but to lose some and be near death in the rest?

    Not seeing a problem.
     1 people found this helpful
    Share this post

  5. #5
    I'm pretty certain what you meant was "git gud" "nerf everyone buff warden" and "I'm tired of 108 gear people in my duels".

    I mean your post *looks* like a coherent and well thought out post, but this is the for honor forums. I know better.
     2 people found this helpful
    Share this post

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Gray360UK Go to original post
    So in the first round he gets killed by the other Warden.
    To me that kinda proves his Warden or whatever he does with it isn't OP / broken.

    The Nobushi was bad and never used distance to stay out of reach, was literally toe to toe fighting with the Warden despite having a 6ft spear. The Nobushi was one decent bit of play away from winning. My Nobushi would have been backwards evading with the move that thrusts the spear forward, poisons, and keeps you out of GB range.

    Bad opponents, bad examples.
    If you can get a Warden within 1 hit of death he is not some sort of invulnerable God because of an exploit move.

    Weird that you seem to overlook when he does really badly, but call it broken when he does well?

    If he had won all of the rounds without a scratch you might have a point, but to lose some and be near death in the rest?

    Not seeing a problem.
    The problem isn't being his opponent is either good or bad. The problem is that the shoulder bash has too much utility as compared to every other character that has an initiating unblockable attack. Shoulder bash utility is as follows: Can be charged for better tracking, to knock an opponent further away, guarantee a free top heavy, and deplete a larger portion of their stamina. Can be cancelled into a guard break that tracks. Can be cancelled in order to parry, block, bait, or evade an attack. And you find nothing wrong with this on top of his ability for an easy landing top light and zone attack. I never said that I overlooked his bad games. No one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. But its not simply a matter of a player's performance it's about a character's capability and how he easily over shadows majority of the others. Now, don't get me wrong I main the Warden. Personally he can stay as is for all I care, for I don't run into this problem. I made this post because it's something that's wrong and that particular move shouldn't have that much utility. If you can play against it, well that's good for you, Sir. A player's skill can only carry them so far, after you've reached that point, your particular character's moveset is what's going to carry you the rest of the way and the argument is that the Warden does this too easily.
    Share this post

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by SilverCether Go to original post
    I'm pretty certain what you meant was "git gud" "nerf everyone buff warden" and "I'm tired of 108 gear people in my duels".

    I mean your post *looks* like a coherent and well thought out post, but this is the for honor forums. I know better.
    If your going to give a response at least make it *look* like you thought it out. Gear levels are irrelevant in duels and brawl modes. What part of "git gud" was even remotely hinted at in my post? And this was a post to request a fix to the unanimous amount of utility the shoulder bash has. So how about you *think* before you post stupid responses.
    Share this post

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by RippingLotus Go to original post
    Hello everyone, I would like to start off with an apology. Recently I made an ignorant response on the forums to a post concerning the Warden and his capabilities. The post revolved around the Warden being able to land a top heavy attack (which does 40 dmg) after obtaining a parry. I made this response due to the fact that I had never witnessed this action during my time of play on the Xbox One. I belittled his statement and attempted to "educate" him on the Warden and for that I apologize to said person and the rest of those who have experienced this. There has also been complaints pertaining to his shoulder bash, again, I have not witnessed the full try hard effect of the Warden on my console experience.

    But located here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-v-PsyB69w is the capabilities of a Warden, that I cannot simply stand by. I main the Warden and I love the character, but after watching True Talent exploit this maneuver the way he does, I simply can't look at my favorite character the same as he is. I would simply suggest removing the ability to guard break someone, making it a straight forward technique similar to that of Conqueror shield bash. I don't mind the ability to cancel it. But the shoulder bash being able to have so much utility is absurd. I will not make an argument towards his top light attack and his zone attack. These 2 are essential to even landing any kind of damage against turtle or assassin characters. But the vortex effect definitely needs some form of fix.
    Honestly I don't know what you're referring to as a special problem. Sure shoulder bash has more utility than comparable techniques, but suggesting that's a problem because it's so strong fails to consider the overall balance of the character. That one aspect being absurdly strong doesn't make the character absurdly strong. There's a reason Warlords, Shugoki, and Conqueror are on many high tier duel lists considered stronger.

    Take Warlord for example, let's compare his pros/cons to Warden:

    Warden:

    Fast top light
    Followup side lights
    Crushing Blow
    Fast/good reaching zone attack
    Shoulder bash (massive bonus to be sure)

    Warlord:

    Uninterruptible heavies
    Full block
    Superior block (the effect, not redundant with fullguard, it just goes hand in hand)
    Headbutt
    Shield Counter
    Throw distance
    Lowest switch frames of all classes (https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...a_mega_thread/)
    Higher health

    I think it's fairly clear that, taken together, Warden isn't severely broken compared to Warlord. Maybe stronger, most likely weaker (ask most high level duelists, Warlord is considered 1st or 2nd strongest by most, Warden is considered strong by most but not broken).

    If Warden's shoulder bash needs fixed to any degree, you'll have to at least address these other classes in some comparable way. Otherwise, literally all you're doing is further limiting one classes viability.

    In short, Warden's strength overall mostly lies in one ability: shoulder bash. If you remove it's utility, Warden is Warlord 2 slightly faster attacks that are hyper predictable and nothing else. Shoulder Bash needs to be better than it's competitors or Warden will not be nearly as competitive at higher tiers (as that's largely the only thing keeping them in high tier viability).
     1 people found this helpful
    Share this post

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Raven-Mad Go to original post
    Honestly I don't know what you're referring to as a special problem. Sure shoulder bash has more utility than comparable techniques, but suggesting that's a problem because it's so strong fails to consider the overall balance of the character. That one aspect being absurdly strong doesn't make the character absurdly strong. There's a reason Warlords, Shugoki, and Conqueror are on many high tier duel lists considered stronger.

    Take Warlord for example, let's compare his pros/cons to Warden:

    Warden:

    Fast top light
    Followup side lights
    Crushing Blow
    Fast/good reaching zone attack
    Shoulder bash (massive bonus to be sure)

    Warlord:

    Uninterruptible heavies
    Full block
    Superior block (the effect, not redundant with fullguard, it just goes hand in hand)
    Headbutt
    Shield Counter
    Throw distance
    Lowest switch frames of all classes (https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...a_mega_thread/)
    Higher health

    I think it's fairly clear that, taken together, Warden isn't severely broken compared to Warlord. Maybe stronger, most likely weaker (ask most high level duelists, Warlord is considered 1st or 2nd strongest by most, Warden is considered strong by most but not broken).

    If Warden's shoulder bash needs fixed to any degree, you'll have to at least address these other classes in some comparable way. Otherwise, literally all you're doing is further limiting one classes viability.

    In short, Warden's strength overall mostly lies in one ability: shoulder bash. If you remove it's utility, Warden is Warlord 2 slightly faster attacks that are hyper predictable and nothing else. Shoulder Bash needs to be better than it's competitors or Warden will not be nearly as competitive at higher tiers (as that's largely the only thing keeping them in high tier viability).
    Why of course, because everyone you just listed are the top 4 characters in the game. But I'll provide you with a more "interactive" response when I return from work
    Share this post

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by RippingLotus Go to original post
    If your going to give a response at least make it *look* like you thought it out. Gear levels are irrelevant in duels and brawl modes. What part of "git gud" was even remotely hinted at in my post? And this was a post to request a fix to the unanimous amount of utility the shoulder bash has. So how about you *think* before you post stupid responses.


    I want you to read your post, then my post. Then your post. Then my post. Back to yours. Back to mine. If you cannot see it there is no helping you.
    Share this post