The solution for changing the defensive issue [Give me your thoughs] | Forums

[Nlight91]

THAT, is a constructive thread

I agree, that defense is (tremendously) too much rewarding regarding the efforts and risks it requires to be effective, while the offense demands too much stamina and risks to be a fifth as effective... this is a serious problem, making most of moderate levels fights long and boring as hell... along with preventing any skill progress. While this is not a problem that arise in Dominion, and not that much in Deathmatches, in Duels, this is cancer to a true success for the game.

This is a CRITICAL problem, regardless of characters played.

Now, there have been some good options stated earlier, really worth considering.

How about blocks don't interupt combos (lights as well as heavys) ? this is not enough, add to that a mechanics that : blocking chained hits progressively exopse you to hits (ie : progressively making you loose the ability to chain block), while as your blocking ability fades away, you're exposed to a greater portion of the normal damage you would receive if you did not block.

This, leaves blocking as an option, but only a short term one, as it fades away quickly, hence forcing you to take other actions, like risking a parry[1][2], attacking, evading, GB. The recovery of the guarding ability should be automatic, as the stamina.


[1] : Parrying would become thigter as the blocking ability fades away. The stamina cost of parrying should be free while the blocking aility is full, and tremendous when it is not.

[2] : Or parying stays as it is actually, hence inciting to using feints more often, and punishing thos who would think that parring is the bread an butter option.

[Kharneth88]

Making dash costing stamina will not punish defensive game but offensive one.
Not only you need to dash in order to attack but attacking and going off for characters with combo/vortex requires a lot of stamina that usually leads to being out at some point (or very close to be).
If you make dash/dodge cost stamina, not only peoples won't attack by fear to get parried but they won't go off if they manage to open their opponent's guard either by fear of running out of stamina and not being able to back off to safety afterwards.



Except not, GB isn't a problem and if you just make it easier, not only you'll punish lower skilled players and turn the game into a "throw into pit" fest but you'll basically make a game where the only way of getting some damage is to use a GB....which become very predictable so even if the timing is tight, many people would master it and we're back to the beginning...

First off, don't call it dash. The game calls it dodge and it's better not to use confusing terminology. Second, only noobs use dodge as an offensive means to make an attack. Dodge attacks are defensive counter-attacks by nature.

If you want to prevent people from being so defensive you need to put stamina costs on blocking and dodging. Everything you've explained is defensive maneuvering. If you want defensive gameplay to lessen than you need to make defensive gameplay require stamina just like offensive gameplay. This will force players to make decisions about being offensive or defensive, instead of how it is right now where players can just be offensive until they have low stamina and then be defensive while trying to regenerate stamina.

If defensive gameplay required stamina than people would opt to be offensive because what will happen to defenders is they will get tired while defending and then unable to retaliate, which is how it should be. People will try to get the upper hand offensively and will need to be tactical in regards to their defenses.

[Munktor]

Second, only noobs use dodge as an offensive means to make an attack. Dodge attacks are defensive counter-attacks by nature.

Then why are some of them actually forward leap attacks that can lead into a secondary/follow-up strike?

[GenLiu]

THAT, is a constructive thread

Thx

How about blocks don't interupt combos (lights as well as heavys) ? this is not enough, add to that a mechanics that : blocking chained hits progressively exopse you to hits (ie : progressively making you loose the ability to chain block), while as your blocking ability fades away, you're exposed to a greater portion of the normal damage you would receive if you did not block.

This, leaves blocking as an option, but only a short term one, as it fades away quickly, hence forcing you to take other actions, like risking a parry[1][2], attacking, evading, GB. The recovery of the guarding ability should be automatic, as the stamina.


[1] : Parrying would become thigter as the blocking ability fades away. The stamina cost of parrying should be free while the blocking aility is full, and tremendous when it is not.

[2] : Or parying stays as it is actually, hence inciting to using feints more often, and punishing thos who would think that parring is the bread an butter option.

So basically make a separate meter for blocking. I like the idea a lot, that could certainly work.
It should be well balanced though, the game should remain defensive oriented imo. It's just that it shouldn't be to a point where defense becomes too dominant at highest level of play.

First off, don't call it dash. The game calls it dodge and it's better not to use confusing terminology. Second, only noobs use dodge as an offensive means to make an attack. Dodge attacks are defensive counter-attacks by nature.

If you want to prevent people from being so defensive you need to put stamina costs on blocking and dodging. Everything you've explained is defensive maneuvering. If you want defensive gameplay to lessen than you need to make defensive gameplay require stamina just like offensive gameplay. This will force players to make decisions about being offensive or defensive, instead of how it is right now where players can just be offensive until they have low stamina and then be defensive while trying to regenerate stamina.

If defensive gameplay required stamina than people would opt to be offensive because what will happen to defenders is they will get tired while defending and then unable to retaliate, which is how it should be. People will try to get the upper hand offensively and will need to be tactical in regards to their defenses.

In fact I used the word "dash" in purpose so that peoples don't get confuse with the side/back dodge which are mainly defensive moves....apparently it didn't work lol
I strongly disagree with the forward "dodge", this is completely relevant for offensive and it works well for me even against the strongest opponents I fight online.

For example, "dodge" forward into GB can surprise your opponent, "dodge" forward, then quickly backward can bait a reaction....
Not to mention the milion of offensive moves in this game starting with a "dodge" forward (dashing thrust of the PK which, by the way, is part of a key combo for the character (after a GB stab...so totally a noob thing wink wink), Nobushi's cobra strike, Kensei's helm splitter....).

[SF_JHawk373]

Make parry stun instead of giving frame advantage. This carries an equal usage and weight across parrying all classes and allows for tactical advantage instead of free defensive damage/killing power. This will also have the effect of making deflections more worthwhile as a damaging counter-part to parries.

Parry now costs significant stamina, but a good portion of that is refunded if the parry lands.

Parry window is shortened slightly. It is currently too easy.

Feinting Costs slightly less stamina.

Make every GB counterable

Allow combos to continue when blocked (not parry) so long as the first strike lands without being blocked. Obviously the conq is an exception, but the Warlord's all-block stance is a bit too strong... it should not allow frame advantage..

Have dodge cost stamina

Something has to be done about the strength of dodge-attacks *assassins*, but the stamina cost to dodging might be enough... not sure.

Increase chip damage, but don't allow it to deal lethal

Game is fixed.

Parry doesn't need a significant stamina cost as you are already punished by receiving a hit if you miss it but it should cost the same stamina as a heavy attack.

I like the idea of combos being allowed to continue while being block however I would make these changes:

-The defender suffers a light stamina drain per hit, blocking a heavy attack stops the combo (maybe)
-Attackers drain more stamina per hit and increased stamina drain per heavy attack blocked; swinging and or blocking steel will tire anyone out so there should be stamina cost for everything at a reasonable level. Even hand to hand combat is exhausting on offence and defence and even if you block an attack you will take some damage.

-So it's reasonable to have chip damage increased slightly for heavy attacks and small chip damage for light attacks.
-Dodge should cost stamina, at least equal to a light attack or between a light and heavy attack.

-Not every GB should be counter able as you are granted free attacks in certain situations, you should be allowed a free GB on staggered opponents ect.


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