The solution for changing the defensive issue [Give me your thoughs] | Forums

[GenLiu]

People too often claim that dodging should require stamina but make no mention of blocking. If dodging requires stamina than so should blocking. If dodge attacks are your concern, then they should simply increase the stamina cost on the dodge attacks, not dodging in general. Dodge attacking is already easily countered with guard breaking. The only time dodge attacking is actually a problem is when a dodge is used defensively to dodge an attack, where you can't actually block it afterwards.

Making dash costing stamina will not punish defensive game but offensive one.
Not only you need to dash in order to attack but attacking and going off for characters with combo/vortex requires a lot of stamina that usually leads to being out at some point (or very close to be).
If you make dash/dodge cost stamina, not only peoples won't attack by fear to get parried but they won't go off if they manage to open their opponent's guard either by fear of running out of stamina and not being able to back off to safety afterwards.

The best, yet simplest, solution is chaning the GB counter mechanic. Make it to be impossible to perform on reaction... problem solved.

Except not, GB isn't a problem and if you just make it easier, not only you'll punish lower skilled players and turn the game into a "throw into pit" fest but you'll basically make a game where the only way of getting some damage is to use a GB....which become very predictable so even if the timing is tight, many people would master it and we're back to the beginning...

[Maaci]

Making dash costing stamina will not punish defensive game but offensive one.
Not only you need to dash in order to attack but attacking and going off for characters with combo/vortex requires a lot of stamina that usually leads to being out at some point (or very close to be).
If you make dash/dodge cost stamina, not only peoples won't attack by fear to get parried but they won't go off if they manage to open their opponent's guard either by fear of running out of stamina and not being able to back off to safety afterwards.

Not sure how exactly. Right now attacking into a class that simple can dash your attack and get freedamage can be suicide, making you just play extra passive while the class that can do this kind of attack patietnly waits for the opportunity.
Its one of the few attacks that is possible in this game and that feels wrong. You shouldnt be able to attack when your opponent makes a mistake, you should be able to attack anyway.


Nerfing/redesigning dash is a must imo. If dash doesnt get any of those i dont see how a class such as lawbringer which is slow could ever initiativ to attack.

[THEPH0NECOMPANY]

The main thing they need to do is remove all forms of defense transitioning into offense, with a few exceptions mainly the classes designed around it, assassins and warlord and LB , and even then it should not be able to kill people. at most you should get a light

Nobody should get killed by attacking unless they trade attacks, nobody should be GB from a parry ever, basically you need to **** up on defense in order to die

Then they need to rebalance everyone which will probably take a lot of time, and this of course would be done on their side, which means their will be a whole host of issues to deal with after....

[Starcanum]

What if you just removed the occasional free guardbreaks? Wouldn't that increase the incentive to actually attack, as people won't be as punished by parries anymore? As it stands now, every hero in the game tries to play a counter-attacker role, but maybe leave counter-attacks to the heroes that have it as their role (you'll still have the PK/orochi after-deflect unblockables etc.), and have the other characters be proficient at what they're meant to be. Range, speed, defense etc.

You can make the parries more rewarding in some way, for example, make the next attack after a parry unblockable. But make it so that you'd actually have a time window to parry that attack instead of having it be the only 100% move in the game and break it as a result.

[Ryumanjisen]

Except not, GB isn't a problem and if you just make it easier, not only you'll punish lower skilled players and turn the game into a "throw into pit" fest but you'll basically make a game where the only way of getting some damage is to use a GB....which become very predictable so even if the timing is tight, many people would master it and we're back to the beginning...

I'm not saying to make it easier, quite the opposite, in fact. If you make GB uncounterable on reaction, you will force people to attack cause they will be scared of getting GB'ed.

This need to be like in any other fighting game: teching a throw is a matter of predictions, not reactions. This game needs to be more about mind games and less about reflexes if you want to change this defensive meta.

[MinaX-LorD]

I'm not saying to make it easier, quite the opposite, in fact. If you make GB uncounterable on reaction, you will force people to attack cause they will be scared of getting GB'ed.

This need to be like in any other fighting game: teching a throw is a matter of predictions, not reactions. This game needs to be more about mind games and less about reflexes if you want to change this defensive meta.

You should go comment on my post "true fix to guard break". I had a very similar though process for a fix but my idea is much less punishing. Essentially I realized that if you made the initial GB animation do like 5 damage, even if it was countered, it would force people to take action when in close range rather than just stand there waiting to counter GB and block attacks. This would also force people to start spacing more and respect the dangers of being in close range.

Right now, people will stand right in your face and guard break counter 100 attempts and if you think about it, getting punched in the nose without any ill effects makes no sense.

[Knight_Raime]

eh...I'd rather they:
~make chip damage more significant
~slightly bump up damage on lights and heavies
~make GB's untechable unless they try to throw you. Gb's would not land if the person throwing it out got hit or was trying to GB someone mid animation.
~Make parry window tighter, expend more stamina for both parties, and change the recovery frames to be dependent on what type of attack is parried.
~Allow feints to be used on more moves, feints cost less stamina, feint timing window is moved slightly so commiting to some attacks becomes a thing.

This would do lots of things:
~straight up playing turtle and blocking everything waiting for the right move to punish/parry would still get you killed.
~GB use in the higher levels would remain the same. But would still offer some counter play to optimal combos and make it so a passive player can't tech on reaction ultimately making feints become a bigger part of endgame play.
~parrying would require more skill. be more meaningful, but also introduce choice onto what you should and shouldn't parry. Compared to now where if you can parry you usually do. It also would rid getting a free GB after a parry for the most part. Ideally parrying certain hits would still let you get a free GB. but these attacks would be the hardest to parry. This change would change up what is "optimal" to make things more interesting imo. and perhaps make deflect an option worth considering.
~Feinting even now is some what predictable. going with these changes opens mind games up more. and let them be used more often. It also would probably stop things like wardens vortex from being so strong if possible at all if that particular attack had to be committed to.

[pedzod02]

Please Make a new move "UnParry able combo" but enemy can still blocking it, that will make player fight more. any way it may cost more stamina and it should be a continue move like this "LMB+E , W ,RMB , RMB , R ,LMB+RMB " after use this move stamina will not recover for a while (like full block stance)

[GenLiu]

I'm not saying to make it easier, quite the opposite, in fact. If you make GB uncounterable on reaction, you will force people to attack cause they will be scared of getting GB'ed.

This need to be like in any other fighting game: teching a throw is a matter of predictions, not reactions. This game needs to be more about mind games and less about reflexes if you want to change this defensive meta.

My bad, I missread your comment indeed.
I don't think it would fix the problem alone but sure, that's not a bad idea.

Not sure how exactly. Right now attacking into a class that simple can dash your attack and get freedamage can be suicide, making you just play extra passive while the class that can do this kind of attack patietnly waits for the opportunity.

Ah, then you mean removing invincibility frames from Assassin's class dashes (magically going through your horizontal attacks). I'm agree.

Please Make a new move "UnParry able combo" but enemy can still blocking it, that will make player fight more. any way it may cost more stamina and it should be a continue move like this "LMB+E , W ,RMB , RMB , R ,LMB+RMB " after use this move stamina will not recover for a while (like full block stance)

I think it's easier to make some key attacks just parry resistant like PK's dashing thrust, Kensei/Raider first two strong attacks...as well as pretty much (if not all) the regular light attacks. You shouldn't be able to punish a light attack out of a parry, even in SF3.3 they didn't went that far.

[Kopleman]

Remove ability to do any dmg after GB, but leave after wall-throw.So make this as toll for eating stamina but doing dmg in wrong positioning.