The solution for changing the defensive issue [Give me your thoughs] | Forums

[GenLiu]

Okay, first of all, I don't claim this to be the best way of doing it but I think it would naturally change the way people play at highest level without affecting the core engine of the game.
Just to make things clear, the over defensive issue isn't affecting me but since I'm willing to see more tournament of this game in the future and defense seem to be the problem here is my idea to make things better and force peoples to play more aggressive.

Also, I think the problem is only affecting 1v1.
In a 2v2 situation you can't turtle that much because you're exposing yourself to get ganked by 2 players which will make tanking significantly harder. I don't even talk about 4v4 and Dominion (Dominion is about capturing zones quickly, you can't waste 5 minutes playing a staring contest with your opponent when the rest of his team is capturing the other zones and murdering your team mates).

1/ Reduce the time limit for each round in 1v1. If I'm not mistaken a round currently lasts 3 minutes, most other fighting game has a 99 seconds rounds and it usually takes more time to get your opponent to zero HP (if you're taking damage at a regular rate that is) so 3 minutes is too long for a game like For honor.

2/ when the time runs out the player who landed the most attacks/GB wins (even if they got blocked or teched). In game it could be represented by a point system. Every attack blocked by your opponent give you 1 point, every time they land they give you 3 points, same thing with GB (numbers are just here as an example, it would depend on the character and needs testing obviously but you got the point).

3/ Still make GB impossible after a successful parry so the game isn't just about who land the first parry wins. It could also be necessary to make some key moves resistant to parry.

What do you think? Good idea? bul%^&*? Let me know.

[Kharneth88]

Make dodging, blocking, and parrying cost stamina.

Parrying should cost stamina whether it succeeds or not (I guess it already does when it fails because it's a heavy attack).

Blocking should cost stamina when it is successful and should cost stamina based on the damage of the attack.

Dodging should cost stamina, too, but only when it is successful.

I think that's about all it would take as I don't really think defensive gameplay is an issue. I don't think these changes would drastically affect people's gameplay, and I think they'd add a little extra tactical decision-making regarding what people can do.

I should clarify that none of these should cost anything while you are exhausted otherwise it'll just be impossible to recover without dying.

[Rump_Buffalo]

Make parry stun instead of giving frame advantage. This carries an equal usage and weight across parrying all classes and allows for tactical advantage instead of free defensive damage/killing power. This will also have the effect of making deflections more worthwhile as a damaging counter-part to parries.

Parry now costs significant stamina, but a good portion of that is refunded if the parry lands.

Parry window is shortened slightly. It is currently too easy.

Feinting Costs slightly less stamina.

Make every GB counterable

Allow combos to continue when blocked (not parry) so long as the first strike lands without being blocked. Obviously the conq is an exception, but the Warlord's all-block stance is a bit too strong... it should not allow frame advantage..

Have dodge cost stamina

Something has to be done about the strength of dodge-attacks *assassins*, but the stamina cost to dodging might be enough... not sure.

Increase chip damage, but don't allow it to deal lethal

Game is fixed.

[Maaci]

Make parry stun instead of giving frame advantage. This carries an equal usage and weight across parrying all classes and allows for tactical advantage instead of free defensive damage/killing power. This will also have the effect of making deflections more worthwhile as a damaging counter-part to parries.

Parry now costs significant stamina, but a good portion of that is refunded if the parry lands.

Parry window is shortened slightly. It is currently too easy.

Feinting Costs slightly less stamina.

Make every GB counterable

Allow combos to continue when blocked (not parry) so long as the first strike lands without being blocked. Obviously the conq is an exception, but the Warlord's all-block stance is a bit too strong... it should not allow frame advantage..

Have dodge cost stamina

Something has to be done about the strength of dodge-attacks *assassins*, but the stamina cost to dodging might be enough... not sure.

Increase chip damage, but don't allow it to deal lethal

Game is fixed.

Someone else other than me (and few others) that want the free-damage gone. Hurray!
Your parry suggestion isnt bad either. Would like to add that more options exist here without giving the free damage(frame advantage), such as:
- simple breaking a combo and get the advantage(still defendable)
- breaking a combo+starting a combo right after(a unique combo for x class that only works when you parry an attack)
and probably more.

Would like to see combos continue when blocked even on conquerer, and then give him somethign else instead.

Remove the sidestepping-attacks so classes are encouraged to attack against them in general. They could get some unique things with dodge instead, such as switching stance faster than normal(sort of like feiting but without an interrupt) that only works while in a combo- Then remove "feint" for them.

To be clear, there are many options how to design the game. But overall, the free-damage should be removed and the back-and-forth gameplay should be encouraged alot more than it currently is.

Overall good suggestions.

[Jobsalot]

I am with the "make excessive blocking/turtling" more punishable - crowd.

Not just stamina, let it affect health, too. Start by really minuscule amounts but maybe consider making the effect cummulative if no counter attack by the defender is initiated. Maybe apply a soft penalty that goes back over time if the counter attack is initiated, so the received block damage doesn't stay as permanent.

[Kharneth88]

People too often claim that dodging should require stamina but make no mention of blocking. If dodging requires stamina than so should blocking. If dodge attacks are your concern, then they should simply increase the stamina cost on the dodge attacks, not dodging in general. Dodge attacking is already easily countered with guard breaking. The only time dodge attacking is actually a problem is when a dodge is used defensively to dodge an attack, where you can't actually block it afterwards.

[nf_Straydog]

My suggestion is a meter separate from stamina that depletes when passively guarding attacks and can only be restored through connecting with attacks (either on hit or guard.) When this meter is depleted, the next blocked heavy attack will knock you down and restore half of the meter. Rather than making parrying less rewarding, make it riskier by making the window in which you can feint heavy attacks slightly later, enough that you can get a guaranteed light attack if you successfully bait a parry.

EDIT: dodging is not in need of a nerf. Dodging is already risky, and people at high levels of play will not do it unless it is absolutely necessary (to avoid unblockables which can't be parried.)

[Maaci]

My suggestion is a meter separate from stamina that depletes when passively guarding attacks and can only be restored through connecting with attacks (either on hit or guard.) When this meter is depleted, the next blocked heavy attack will knock you down and restore half of the meter. Rather than making parrying less rewarding, make it riskier by making the window in which you can feint heavy attacks slightly later, enough that you can get a guaranteed light attack if you successfully bait a parry.

EDIT: dodging is not in need of a nerf. Dodging is already risky, and people at high levels of play will not do it unless it is absolutely necessary (to avoid unblockables which can't be parried.)

You mean the charge-attacks? You could make one able to defend against that in other ways. Although it would require more work for ubisoft.

[Ryumanjisen]

The best, yet simplest, solution is chaning the GB counter mechanic. Make it to be impossible to perform on reaction... problem solved.

[lonemeditater]

Also, I think the problem is only affecting 1v1.
In a 2v2 situation you can't turtle that much because you're exposing yourself to get ganked by 2 players which will make tanking significantly harder. .

Multiple classes can block in all directions without the risk of GB, since all GB can be broken now.