PeaceKeeper in need of serious nerf/retune | Forums

[Peligrad]

Hey di**-hole. I have 75% win-rate. I do just fine against everything. I just happen to take stock of what works and what doesn't and my choice of wording when trying to give advice to other players does not give you license to act like a tiny-d*cked scrublet on the forums. Go sit on an axe-head and await further instructions, I'll be by soon to visit your mother.

75% win rate is not "doing fine". That's pretty horribad considering that all your vs AI matches are included in that win%.

If you're not over 85% then you are probably losing more PvP matches than you are winning (if you are doing vs AIs for orders on any frequency which is basically free xp and steel so why wouldn't you be).

You're playing the broken as fu(k PK and losing half your duels despite having one of the strongest offensive kits in the game... you probably shouldn't be on the forums trying to give advice...

[TheRevanchist27]

75% win rate is not "doing fine". That's pretty horribad considering that all your vs AI matches are included in that win%..

I don't fight against AI, so suck it.

75% = 3/4 games result in a win. That's not bad at all.

85% win is 4/5 games result in a win. Math dude. Math.

Now go back to your hole little Xbox cuck.

[Aarpian]

I don't fight against AI, so suck it.

75% = 3/4 games result in a win. That's not bad at all.

85% win is 4/5 games result in a win. Math dude. Math.

Now go back to your hole little Xbox cuck.

Actually 85% win rate is 17/20 wins. Math dude. Math.

And yeah, 75% win rate on PK is god awful.

[Synsif]

Actually 85% win rate is 17/20 wins. Math dude. Math.

And yeah, 75% win rate on PK is god awful.

85% is 17/20 that's true. But for comparison, 75% is 15/20. Out of 20, he'd only lose 2 more games than someone who had 85%. That's not top tier of course, but that's still not bad considering he only loses 5 games out of 20. Now, if he's playing against bots most of those matches then yea it's pretty garbage.

[Steak0815]

Rep. 7 Lawbringer here:

Most successful Lawbringers I've fought against bully the crap out of me with grapple and shove spam. They also like to charge/push me into objects and flip me a lot.

In short, you have the HP to trade blows, use that against PK's.

Not going to work. Every attack is so slow it can easily be interrupted by either a light attack or if you react to slow by a zone attack.
If a Lawbringer manages to get guard breaks on you or throws you into objects, well you messed up and didn't tech the gb or interrupted it by spamming lights or zone attack.
Shove->GB->Heavy->Shove Chain is for clubbing seals, if you get caught by that you are a bad player.
Shove is basically useless against a PK. Exhausted PK can't be punished for it. Dodges away until stamina back up.

Whoever said Lawbringer has no way to kill a pk:
Problem is PK light attack is executed in 13 frames @ 60fps = 216ms
Lawbringer change of guardstance: 8 frames @ 60fps = 133ms
To block the attack you have: 83ms to react.

Here is a link with reaction time averages:
http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/...ime/statistics

In conclusion you need to be a jedi to even block light attacks consistently.
The zone attack is executed in 8 frames, which equals a Lawbringers stance change, so there is no way to block it if you have to change guard.

So let's follow the advice and leave our default guard right so the zone attack doesn't hit us.
No let's assume we are a jedi and able to block every attack from other directions in the given timeframe of 83ms.
And we want to apply some dmg to a peacekeeper able to guard break, so we parry her light attacks:

Parrying the attack decreases the timeframe of the PK light attack, I don't know exactly how much it is, but let's be generous and say you have 2/3 of the time to parry.
That would be round about 7 frames, which is smaller than the guard change of a Lawbringer.

So it's technically not possible to change guard and parry a pk light attack.

In conclusion, every light attack from a pk that got parried by either a Lawbringer, Shoguki, Nobushi or Raider was guessed and in no case there was a guard change involved.

To me it looks like game designers didn't want to have light attacks of pk to be easy to block (which makes sense), but the mechanics of guard change makes it technically impossible to do so for several classes.
In the latest dev talk it was mentioned that Raider has a good winrate vs. peacekeepers.
I could also imagine Shoguki and Nobushi being decent against her, because both of these slow guard changers have tools to otherwise apply pressure that may result in heavy dmg. Unfortunatly Lawbringer relies on parries alone if an opponent is able to counter guard break consistently and therefore outclassed by a pk.

The same problem for Lawbringer applies to valkyrie. Fast attacks from different angles are impossible to parry.
The problem does not apply to Warden and Orochi, because their top light attack is easier to predict as they only have one fast attack except their zone attack.
Reaction time to block top light of warden/orochi is 116ms (possible when you are a gosu).

Also you need to reduce your input lag to the maximum amount to give you every single ms you can get.
Having a bad ping, v-sync on and a tv as monitor will make it technically impossible to block said attacks.

[Dizzy4213]

Let me give you the natural counters to Pk in the hands of at least a decent player.

Conqueror, Warlord, Nobushi, Raider (apparently), Warden (a stretch but I'm serious), Berserker, Kensei.

All of these in a the hands of a decent player who takes the time to actually learn what they can do and not do against certain classes. In other words, it takes a special kind of thing called skill. Get good scrubs.

Nobushi is not a natural counter to Peacekeeper at all. In fact, it's the worst possible match up for her. Same can be said for the Raider, Shugoki and Lawbringer. These heroes have the slowest guard change of all heroes, and if the Peacekeeper decides to light attack spam you to death, there is nothing you can do about it.

I think Peacekeeper is fine for the most part. They need to either nerf her light attack spam or fix the guard change speed for those characters so they can at least stand a chance against her.

[MrForz]

I don't enjoy fighting a PK. It feels lame and tastes sour whether I come victorious or not. I'd prefer tossing myself at a Warlord any time of the day.

[GiganticKORAK]

Why is it that everytime there is a class balance debate,some people always jump out and go "your point is invalid, because I can beat XXX just fine with OOO"

Seriously people, that is not how you discuss class balance.
You have to take out "skill factor" when debating balance. You pit one thing class A can do against class B, and talk about why class A would win in this match-up.

For example, if we are talking about Warden vs PK, you put Warden Vortex against PK's ability to counter it. Say maybe PK would win in this exchange because her light attack is fast enough to stop the vortex altogether. (Granted, I don't play PK so I don't really know if PK can actually stop it or not. It is just an example)

And this here is an example of what NOT to do "Oh! I have killed bunch of high level PK with Warden Vortex. so PK is not a problem for Warden"



Kudos for the people that actually pull out class facts for this discussion. We need more of that.

[Mewsan]

It is a FACT that LB is trash in duels, especially against PK (although not his hardest match-up). As for PK, she is borderline op if not op. They need to slow her ZA down, as it is even faster than Warden's ZA. And fix the damn ZA indicator bug! Those two changes alone might make PK balanced enough.

[k1ng831]

brutal
https://gfycat.com/LoneUglyBrahmanbull