Worth trying the Conqueror? | Forums

[Kemorand]

Update:
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...-Notes-(v1-03)
Two big issues will be apparently fixed tomorrow. Will help quite a bit.
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With how the game works, the various modes and the totally unreliable P2P system, anyone can win against anything for random reasons. That's not the issue. Peligrad listed some but to sum up:
- Among slowest GBs and shortest ranges mean you'll always lose GB duels. (not talking counter GBs here).
- Blocked light attacks generate unstoppable GBs.
- Heavy are slow very predictable. Charged heavy is begging to be instantly GBed that cannot be countered.
- No real feint and the "pseudo feint" is a non instant omni block (useless) and massive stamina drain and super risky if not at max stamina or against multiple enemies.
- AE does nothing, no range, no movement and is completely useless.
- Everyone is faster than you (but Shugoki?)
- Once in the last HP bar range, where a lot of games are won/lost, you're the only one who cannot kill from a GB > Heavy, meaning you will NEVER kill anyone who knows how to play unless you have a wall/environment with you. All he needs is back roll and regen and there is nothing you can do, while all other classes will instantly kill you after a GB. Needing a wall or a slow/bad opponent to win doesn't make the Conqueror good.
- Under revenge, all anyone needs to do is roll out and stay away. There is nothing whatsoever you can do.

Does that make the conqueror bad? Numerically yes, it's the worst class out there. In actual reality for most people, no, it's a very strong class because most people have no clue whatsoever and you have walls/environment everywhere. There is no "high level" conqueror play against anyone who understand conqueror, you'll get destroyed, just because numbers. The only wins you can get are with walls around you, against people who fumble, or just don't know how to play proper, period.

If you DO play conqueror, never EVER fight away from environment/walls.
Just look at every video of conquerors out there, opponents either have no clue, or get wall chained


edit:
As a note, conqueror is my sole and only main and loving it but I'm not competitive (as in, finding the best class to win and whatnot), just like the feel and style of it.

[ZoB.Raymond]

Well I play conqueror and I'm just laughing when I read people trying the deconstruct the game to know who's best and who's not. I wreck people. And I think I'm not that good after all, conqueror IS strong, good defense, deals high damages and I have good mobility feeling.

Just play calm and mind your surroundings, walls help, but you can defeat anyone in the middle of a place. I do.

However it's a matter of style. I like his style, if you do you will probably enjoy it, and find your way to kill people, numbers or not. LMAO.

[THECDNVIKING]

I love my turtle. I'm not even great but i find him very fun.
He is the polar opposite of your PK though so be aware. Oddly enough my favorite battles are against PK players cause it's all about the punish damage. Wait for those slippery bastards to get cocky, block interupt and then wail with a good couple heavies and a shield bash, then back off and watch them panic. They can get around your shield but it's almost always a good fight. They are so squishy and my mace hits so hard, but I am so slow and they hit from any angle. Gets my blood boiling just thinking about it. Lol
Here is my evaluation of the Conquerer. Mind you I am not at all a hardcore player so my thoughts might just be garage.

The Conquerer is a totaly reactive fighter. He is slow both in movement and swing speed so he needs to force the engagement on his terms. Don't ever feel bad about turteling up and waiting for an opening. But your block reads better be on point or you will get wrecked.
People trash the charged heavy as being too slow but I think they are only using half its potential. It closes a surprisingly large gap and you will often catch people out of position. Also since the Conquerer doesn't have a feint he is given a free attack off of a successful parry. Combine that with your charged heavy and you will lay some serious hurt. Just charge it up and release on the parry timing. Once again though, you block game better be badass...
Another tactic that I think people under-estimate is a straight up rope-a-dope. Pull the Rocky. Take as much as you can so that they get overconfident and then get the parry or the shield bash to open them up when they are tired and lay down some brutal hurt bombs. You can wipe an assassin class with one good roll of heavy hits with some bashes thrown in to throw them off. Don't underestimate how dangerous a heavy combo is when you get them off gaurd.
Conquerers also are made for holding off multiple attackers with their full gaurd. In games like dominion you are key to breaking up the inevitable gang ups that happen. Rush in with you shield charge and then turtle up with a full gaurd and give your teammates some respite as the blows just rain off you. Note, YOU WILL GET GAURD BROKEN! Hopefully your teammates have recovered enough to take some heat off you or you gonna have a bad time....mind you when you get revenge you are a monster. Your already high damage is buffed and your stamina limits are removed so hit hard and often! I have held off multiple opponents by turteling, revenge, hit kill one, turtle, revenge, ....you get the idea.
People will also give you crap for over using shield bash. Donot let them get you! There is a reason the Conquerer can shield bash from so many angles and positions. It's how you get your openings to lay the hurt. Got a pro orochi laying down overhead heavies? Block, heavy shield bash, heavy and so on.
Got a lawbringer or a shogoki trying to over whelm you? Dodge, shield bash heavy and so on.
It's unblockable but can be dodged so you gotta pick your shots.
I use the light combo mostly to ward off GB cause man are you susceptible to them! I know some people use it as their bread and butter to wear down opponents with an endless stream but I just can't get it off.
That was way longer than I meant it to be but I love the class.
Hope it helps.

[ZenBearV13]

Incorrect. Many Conq's miss an entire aspect of being a conq and that's dash-cancelling the charged flail. just having that bad boy swinging is a mindgame in and of itself, and since you can block on release, people tend to be more careful when you have it spun up. this gives you thhe opportunity to be aggressive. you can dash-cancel in any direction (which also puts your guard in that direction... just discovered this last night duelling a friend) and follow up with either a shield bash or since many people expect the bash, you can delay for a moment as they sidestep and give them a guard break.

playing aggressively with conq gives me a special kind of joy.

I'm aware of dash-cancelling the charged heavy. What was I incorrect about?

[Peligrad]

I'm aware of dash-cancelling the charged heavy. What was I incorrect about?

I think he is saying you can be aggressive due to being able to charge your heavy.

Against all but the very highest tier players, that is true.

But there are a very select few players who are quick enough to parry your charged heavy with a high success rate. There are a lot more players out there playing assassins who will punish you with a dodge attack if you take a swing at them with the charged heavy.

Though you can fake the charged heavy into an all block stance and then get a "riposte" into a shield bash into a light attack on them. That typically will work at least once on an assassin.

Personally, when I'm up against a conq as conq. Stamina management tends to be pretty critical. I'm pretty happy to just stay out of range of their heavy attack when the other guy charges it. Then I move in and try to coax out an attack right after he cancels it.

There really isn't a great way to attack a conqueror as a conqueror. But if you can get a GB or fake like you are going for a GB and get them to attack then you can get in on them.

[ParadigmFringe]

I think he is saying you can be aggressive due to being able to charge your heavy.

Against all but the very highest tier players, that is true.

But there are a very select few players who are quick enough to parry your charged heavy with a high success rate. There are a lot more players out there playing assassins who will punish you with a dodge attack if you take a swing at them with the charged heavy.

Though you can fake the charged heavy into an all block stance and then get a "riposte" into a shield bash into a light attack on them. That typically will work at least once on an assassin.

Personally, when I'm up against a conq as conq. Stamina management tends to be pretty critical. I'm pretty happy to just stay out of range of their heavy attack when the other guy charges it. Then I move in and try to coax out an attack right after he cancels it.

There really isn't a great way to attack a conqueror as a conqueror. But if you can get a GB or fake like you are going for a GB and get them to attack then you can get in on them.

i was saying incorrect in reference to someone saying the conq's only option for doing damage is waiting for the other guy to move first. conq CAN be aggressive, but you have to REALLY get into the other guy's head. personally i like to whiff a few swings from one side intentionally early on so they think i'm garbage, then maybe i'll whiff a gb or two (all from safe-ish distance) just to remind them that GB is a thing and i'm a conq and they should probably try to gb me aaaaaand now i've set the bait.

btw, sorry it took so long to respond, i got a message i had been banned for exceeding the message limit.

[ZenBearV13]

Conq playing aggressive is a lot of fun. Whereas other classes play mind games with feints, we play mind games with dodges. Throw out a few dodge>charge>lights and then dodge>pause>GB when they get wise. Charge a heavy from range, then dodge>charge>light. All Guard>charge is risky because it's slower, but it can pay off a lot. IIRC it guarantees a heavy? I haven't been blocked after an all guard>charge yet, but the charge rarely lands so I can't be sure.

That being said, none of our engages are as fast as PK, Warden, Orochi or Berserker light attacks, so it's easy to punish even attempting a dodge>charge, and our lights are easy parries. Smart enemies will wait out our charged heavy, or parry it if we throw it, and if we try the dodge>charge they can still punish with lights or dodge.

[Kemorand]

Now that the patch has come and gone, Conqueror is indeed back to being very decent overall and enjoyable, with strong counters (like most classes) but also very good base.

Light attack change allow for a lot more variation of play without risking very strong punishments. You can really mind game opponents with mixed infini-chain or just really fast single lights just to poke a bit with heavies thrown in to surprise enemies. It's a LOT more about conditioning the enemy now, since we are less instantly punished on GBs and lights. Very good.

Past two days been great. Win some, lose some as usual but much more enjoyable play and no frustration anymore, apart against Valkyries and their weird animations/timings.

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[guardB0T.EXE]

Conqueror too stronk plz nerf, stop spam shield parry. (I'm rep 14 conq btw)