Fighting a Sshugoki on the bridge | Forums

[Dude_of_Valor]

Yesterday I fought a Shugoki on map with the bridge. I was playing as a Warden.

Now my opponent used their rush attack (of sorts) which goes unblockable and knocks me off the bridge to my doom. This happens twice during the match.

Is there anything anyone has come across on this map against this style of opponent that I can do?

I know I can turtle right at the edge of the map where it is safe but then we will just end in a stalemate (they also waited the other end).

Any advice is welcome.

Cheers

[SnugglesIV]

No counter that I know of. The bridge part is one of the worst examples of map design I have ever seen. It often devolves into who can get the GB throw/who can GBC more reliably. The only way to deal with it, without using GB or GBC, is to stalemate it.

[Oktober.]

shugoki is aids

[SnugglesIV]

shugoki is aids

The problem is not Shugoki. Shugoki is a frustrating character to fight, but he is nowhere near OP. If you can reliably proc his uninterruptable stance and parry/dodge his attacks you can punish him hardcore. This is why someone like PK or even Nobushi can do quite well against him. PK is fast and can put out damage like a MFer, and Nobushi can harass him from the safety of her naginata with bleeds, retreats and even gets free heavies from her guardbreaks if she gets the chance.

If there is anything that needs to be done to Shugoki, his back breaker needs to be changed. It's too hard to realistically dodge against a good Shugoki and it gives him the ability to cheese any duel. The bridge however is literal cancer, especially with CGB timings being so small.

[Dude_of_Valor]

No counter that I know of. The bridge part is one of the worst examples of map design I have ever seen. It often devolves into who can get the GB throw/who can GBC more reliably. The only way to deal with it, without using GB or GBC, is to stalemate it.

Agreed about the map design flaw. Needs to be wide enough so one can dodge etc or have broken up railings alongside it to prevent this from happening everywhere. I have no problem being thrown off a ledge etc but when an unblockable move comes crashing at you. Seems like it's an auto-loss and that is kinda poor.

[SnugglesIV]

Agreed about the map design flaw. Needs to be wide enough so one can dodge etc or have broken up railings alongside it to prevent this from happening everywhere. I have no problem being thrown off a ledge etc but when an unblockable move comes crashing at you. Seems like it's an auto-loss and that is kinda poor.

I normally don't have a problem with being thrown off a ledge too. I try to avoid it because I want to improve as much as I can and throwing someone off a ledge reduces the amount of time I have to fight someone. However, that bridge section changes that because it all comes down to CGB. If you can do it reliably, then you can throw anyone off the ledge (especially if you are Warlord or Lawbringer and you follow up with your head butt/shove when appropriate). If you can't, then you're ****ed. It's bad design to have a map which boils down to pressing one button, and gives no satisfaction to either player. The player who throws you off doesn't feel good about the round (unless they are a sadist and love generating salt), and the player who gets thrown off feels like horrible and learns nothing from it (other than, I gotta hit that CGB/not miss my GB).

It doesn't matter if it was widened enough to stop Shugoki's charge from knocking you off the edge. The fact that it is narrow enough that one GB will instantly throw you off is just terrible design.

[Gray360UK]

Do not go onto the bridge.

[SnugglesIV]

Do not go onto the bridge.

And what if they stay ON the bridge? This is the problem with the bridge part of the map. There are two options:

1) See who can CBG more reliably
2) Stalemate

This is poor design, period. Neither of these options are particularly good. The first one is unsatisfying to everyone involved, and the second option forces me to wait 3-4 minutes to mill the section (and you have to do this twice at the very least). When you add things like Shugoki's charge into the mix, it becomes absolutely intolerable. It's pretty clear the map wasn't made for duels in mind.

[Karma_Ghost]

Dodge. Unless it's a very narrow bridge like in Forest, you can reliably dodge the charge easily and punish. Use light attacks and guard break to keep armor down and more often than not, Shugoki can't do a damn thing. Worry less about getting hit or thrown off and more about just hitting him. Defensive play just gives Shugoki a massive advantage.

[Dude_of_Valor]

Dodge. Unless it's a very narrow bridge like in Forest, you can reliably dodge the charge easily and punish. Use light attacks and guard break to keep armor down and more often than not, Shugoki can't do a damn thing. Worry less about getting hit or thrown off and more about just hitting him. Defensive play just gives Shugoki a massive advantage.

That's the problem on this map you cannot dodge from my experience (I tried and got barged off to my death).

The only solution I see is that the Shugoki needs to go on a diet. That or the map design is changed somewhat.

As for fighting the Shugoki on any other map, no problem at all.