Devs: Do not "revert" gb system (warning) | Forums

[Mr_Gallows]

In high level games, successful GBs were already the exception.

If the system is changed, they will still be the exception.

I what t firs effect, is low snd mid level gameplay, that suffers from enviro kills and GB abuse.

The top 5% might not even feel a difference but the rest will see more fighting based gameplay.

Yeah I think you're right. You never land obvious GBs at high level, so it will not change gameplay significantly at that level. But in general it will make GB less of a pain for most people. The change is also quite small, so it won't break the system. I don't care much, but I think you're spot on with this point.

Although you don't land a lot of GBs at high level, they are often very significant still. A lot of what you do in terms of feinting etc. are working towards that GB.

Even though most GBs are blocked, that one button trick is still too central a component of combat (along with all the cookie cutter mixups of course). The game feels a bit like a QTE game once you reach a certain level

THAT I wish they would change, to open up the game also at higher levels, to make it more free form.

[Braegulfer]

I say go to the beta form like they're doing, which is already a shorter window, and SHORTEN it to a true fighting game window. Make it require foresight and faster reflexes to tech. Cut that window in half and we'll see some more gbs going though on high end while still allowing newer players to counterspam it when some ******lord is spamming the same one or two combos at them all match.

[Mr_Gallows]

I say go to the beta form like they're doing, which is already a shorter window, and SHORTEN it to a true fighting game window. Make it require foresight and faster reflexes to tech. Cut that window in half and we'll see some more gbs going though on high end while still allowing newer players to counterspam it when some ******lord is spamming the same one or two combos at them all match.

Why would you want more GBs? Much of what you do just leads up to trying to GB. GB is a sad one button gameplay, for a game that could have had a lot of depth.

[DrExtrem]

I say go to the beta form like they're doing, which is already a shorter window, and SHORTEN it to a true fighting game window. Make it require foresight and faster reflexes to tech. Cut that window in half and we'll see some more gbs going though on high end while still allowing newer players to counterspam it when some ******lord is spamming the same one or two combos at them all match.

And add new matchmaking problems by making 80% of you players quit in frustration.

Nice plan

[Mr_Gallows]

And add new matchmaking problems by making 80% of you players quit in frustration.

Nice plan

lol yeah

Most GBs are off parry anyway, but yeah... that would truly make the game one button magic against many people

[Danzighjalmur]

In its Current State Guard Breaks Timing is just in too Narrow a Band to Counter. Its too easy to Push someone off a cliff. And too Easy to Cumulatively spam as a group. The window of the Counter Break needs to be widened so that players can "feel" like when they hit a button it is doing something. As it stands I Counter GB only to have it DO Nothing or do something but I am immediately get hit with another GB. Also I think that when you launch into your Heroic Mode you should invulnerable for a few, 1 or 2 secs. that way you don't burn it only to get butchered immediately.

Just my 2 Cents... in the end the Devs will Balance the game hopefully in fairness to all.

[Mr_Gallows]

Once you get used to it, countering GB is really easy. I don't mind though, because I find GB quite dull. It feels like a mechanic they put in the game because the defensive/offensive balance of their core gameplay just didn't work.

I'd rather see them fix the core and then GB wouldn't be an issue and it wouldn't be needed to such a great extent.

[lucasnrachel]

Why not add a hardcore mode for dual and skirmish and elimination. Put it in a real time test phase. Shorten the deflect/parry and guard-break windows and have it no gear or feats for the skirmish elimination mode. I put up a post for skirmish and elimination but people on this forum don't seem to want to have thought out conversations unless it's raging most of the time.
I think this might be at least in the right direction of where you are headed and would be doable for the Ubisoft team and NOT take months .

[MinaX-LorD]

Once you get used to it, countering GB is really easy. I don't mind though, because I find GB quite dull. It feels like a mechanic they put in the game because the defensive/offensive balance of their core gameplay just didn't work.

I'd rather see them fix the core and then GB wouldn't be an issue and it wouldn't be needed to such a great extent.

Bro I think you have decent ideas about gameplay and balance but I feel like every time you talk about guard breaks you have some type of hostility towards them, possibly because you fall victim to them more than you would like? Pretty much everyone here who is saying "yes change it" are the people who are getting punished by guard breaks frequently, and thats why they want it to be easier to tech lol... I mean, before, you kept saying they are so powerful, but in that quote, you just agreed that they are "really easy" to counter.

I'm not at all trying to **** on you guys I'm just stating a fact. Gallows, you keep saying 1 GB is such a significant thing in a fight... OF COURSE it is... Its supposed to be. The fact that only 1 out of like 30 guard breaks will actually slip through in a match means that it SHOULD be a decent punish. Its not even THAT significant actually. For a person like Lawbringer, it gives ONE free heavy. Thats not going to kill you unless you were already on the brink of death in the first place. Even if an Orochi guard broke you, wow big whoop, he gets a 1-2 up combo then he tries to mix you up, which can be easily defended if you don't panic. You know how many guard break heavies you need to kill someone with LB?? I think about 5. Thats reasonable. 1 guard break doesn't make or break a fight unless that fight was already being lost.

I don't know what you all don't understand about guard breaks being pretty much irrelevant unless you get parried. The only way a really good player will get guard broken is if they are parried, or if they went for a guard break AFTER someone already went to guard break them. That was fair. I feel like a broken record saying this, but now, quoting someone else from this thread: if only "1/10 guard breaks slip through"(which is a very generous ratio its actually more like 1/50) how many do you think are going to slip through after this patch?

Idk man... I feel like people are just being weak when it comes to this guard break stuff. I was one of the people getting salty as hell about guard breaks in beta, because I wasn't used to it, and I wasn't reacting fast enough. As soon as I manned up and put just a little bit of time into training mode, and experimenting with my friends, guard breaks became nothing to me, and even after release, I practiced and caught on quickly about the dangers of throwing out lazy guard breaks and spamming. I will stand near a ledge on purpose simply because I know some trash edge lord isn't going to catch me with a guard break. Its too easy to react to. Now with that situation of being able to GB counter even if you got caught trying to GB right after someone, there will be less times where I get punished.

I mean I guess its over now, because the patch is going to go though, but once you guys reach a high level of play, you will see. I really hope you guys see and experience just how stupid it is to have a mechanic in the game that is essentially useless. Maybe you guys just haven't played against great players yet? Idk. I feel like if you did, you wouldn't be in agreement with this patch. Two great players will defend nearly every attack, parry followups, and you know whats worse? They will feint-parry which means they are never vulnerable to parries themselves unless you can parry their lights. Certain warriors become useless when a player is this fluid with his/her game play.

Standing in front of someone and not being afraid of an elbow to the face just doesn't make sense. I still hope someday that maybe UBI sees my suggestion and makes GB attempts do a very small amount of damage, to discourage 100 guard break counters per match with no penalty, cause right now, thats what happens, and after this patch it will be even worse.

[Kladnudmd]

Let me start by saying this: I love this game.

Now, from what I have heard, the GB system is going to be "reverted" which basically means that GBs will be made like 150% easier to counter than they are now.

In the beta, this may not have seemed like a problem, because 95% of the players were too slow and/or too stupid to counter guard breaks, but if you just go and watch high level gameplay now, you will see that a guard break is a RARE thing to see actually working on people. The only time it works is :if you get someone to whiff a GB, then you GB them, if you play with the timing and cause them to hit the counter too early, or if you walk up to someone then throw out a raw GB (WHICH IS A HUGE GAMBLE SINCE THEY COULD JUST ATTACK YOU)and you get the GB due to yours landing before theirs does. The other times you see GB working is when it is used on people who haven't spent any time practicing and they just panic when they get hit with a GB.

In the beta, you could literally just spam the button and you would infinitely guard break. I even think this might open up the possibility to write scripts that would OPTION SELECT guard breaks for you, since there will be no punishment for hitting the button too early. In the Beta, you would get in these situations where you and the other guy kept GB countering each other over and over until one person decided to stop. Please, don't do this.

A lot of players have put a lot of time into the game and have already gotten extremely used to the timing of guard breaking, and the ways to actually land one on someone (which is FREAKING HARD). Making it easier to counter guard breaks would not be fair to them. I am telling you, if this is changed to what people are saying it will be, guard breaks will be completely useless, and you will see the defensive meta truly take off. No one is going to attack, everyone is just going to be sidestepping and trying to bait out attacks for parries. The game is already way too defensive as it is, and trust me, making GBs easier to counter is going to destroy this game.

For a character like Lawbringer, who is already at a huge disadvantage and relies on GB, this would completely destroy him. He will NEVER land a GB. He basically never lands one now(on a halfway decent opponent)! Any character that relies on GB is ruined, and characters like Conqueror, Warden, and Warlord will become OP to the point that it will not even be funny. There will be no way to punish them. Sometimes you need guard breaks and whiff punish guard breaks in order to open these characters up. Change the GB system, and watch what happens.

Please, don't destroy this game.

Now here's how I see it
1. if it's a rarity to higher levels for a GB to work or even seen attempted then it shouldn't matter
2. if it changes some players to be more defensive that would make the attacker have to be tactical not the defender, how is that wrong?
3. if it stops people from spamming GB because of its counter then GB will become a rarity in all levels not just high up
4. if it worked in beta because of people being too slow or inexperienced then how is it different from now?
5. if people want to waste their time GB and counter GB each other then oh well at least no ones falling victim to it but their time
6. because you are use to it doesn't matter, people were use to beta too
7. if it's hard now to land GB and it'll be hard still nothings changed
8. if you rely on GB as Lawbringer that's a problem. I haven't played one much but did alright without GB all too much. And given that GB is used as an attack move and LB is a counter-attack class that point is dead.
9. most Conqs ,Wards, and Lords I've seen are constantly trying to GB, so they would need a new tactic and learn to parry and attack
10. GB would be used for what I think it was intended as; a version of riposte to counter incoming attacks
11. Most importantly GB in it's current state isn't like Dark Souls riposte. It's not a move being used during an attack to throw them off, it is a move to try to knock over. If you think that that would work against a defensive stand in real combat you'll most likely be proven wrong, people would see it coming and brace themselves.

If GB was to break a guard then why is the follow up throw?

GB is used as an attack move but in reality it's a defensive move used when taking heavy or fast damage. A move to stop your attacker and then throw him off giving you time to collect yourself again (a break from guarding. it does wear on you). That's why it's a short nudge followed by a throw, and why you would want your throw increased (to give you more time and space). You say the game is too defensive, and maybe you're right. It is so defensive people are using a defensive ability as an attack.