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[troops_2015]

Argumentum ad personam and onus probandi. I've stopped discussing with you as you do not provide me with any "argument" that would be rational.

Said the pot to the kettle.

[SiewcaRaka]

Fair points. Glad you came round to conceding that there is problems, though faced only by a few comparatively speaking, that would justify them feeling like they have been "scammed" and of course therefore would wish to vent their frustration and 'anger' in the most appropriate place to do so. The forums.

With what? 100 threads? 200? 1000 "dislikes"? 1000 petition signs? You see that numbers do not add up to 280 000 people that are playing on three platforms? You do realize that it doesn't sign that there is problem but that YOU got problem?

[troops_2015]

With what? 100 threads? 200? 1000 "dislikes"? 1000 petition signs? You see that numbers do not add up to 280 000 people that are playing on three platforms? You do realize that it doesn't sign that there is problem but that YOU got problem?

Ohh, I thought we found a happy place!

[SerArthur-Dayne]

100k with problems? Where? If the game would be unplayable for SO many people we wouldn't have so FEW responses.

Have you read those 5000 steam reviews? Does everyone post "it is unplayable"? Or "matchmaking sucks" etc. How many of those are legit and not wrote out of misguided anger towards difficult game mechanic(at least when you got paired with someone much better). You use words "probably", "safe assumption" without providing anything to back it up. You can't expect that thread from 2 month ago, is going to be determinant of how good the game works?

Silent majority works in politics. People usually don't like being scammed(just like you, it doesn't work for you so you are angry) but if that was the case we would see much larger force storming this forum and other places. There would be constant action, not just every couple hours from the same people.

Also, lots of people sign petitions online. Thats why they stopped working. No one care about results of those anymore.

If the game would be unplayable for SO many people we wouldn't have so FEW responses.: Not perticularly true. BF4 had the worst launch of any game to date (I stand to be corrected if you can find a worse example) and the forums still only had so many complaining, I didnt bother complaining on the forum either. And there isnt "FEW" responses, you have only claimed its the same people, can you please provide evidence to back up your claim?

Have you read those 5000 steam reviews? No, I have not read 5,000 reviews! What I have done is skimmed the highest rated and top 150-200 or so reviews, and found that P2P is either the sole gripe, or one of the top issues the reviewer had. Assuming linear probability, and allowing for some statistical disparity down the 5,000 or so reviews, it should lead anyone to safely assume a paradigm of causation.

You use words "probably", "safe assumption" without providing anything to back it up. You can't expect that thread from 2 month ago, is going to be determinant of how good the game works : Using those words is simply airing on the side of caution with wording, so as to concede that "maybe there are some false positives". Even though I believe everyone signed that petition because of P2P issues, im simply allowing wiggle room incase there may be a handfull that didnt.

As for evidence.... Ive given you plenty, but you are burying your head in the sand, in the face of overwhelming evidence. Compare the reviews for this game to any other recent AAA, and its clear that people are having issues with P2P.

Also, yes you can expect threads and petitions from 2 months ago to hold relevant now, considering the game has not improved, still has the same P2P system (most have argued its worse than beta, with the popular poll that went around the forum backing up my claim), and has made some mechanics worse (guardbreak) and included bugs that were abscent from beta (PK stabs amoung others). If the game had drastically changed, or in fact changed much at all I would be inclined to agree with you. But since it hasnt, those petitions, reviews, comments, posts, complaints, and videos hold relevant now more than ever.

[SiewcaRaka]

If the game would be unplayable for SO many people we wouldn't have so FEW responses.: Not perticularly true. BF4 had the worst launch of any game to date (I stand to be corrected if you can find a worse example) and the forums still only had so many complaining, I didnt bother complaining on the forum either. And there isnt "FEW" responses, you have only claimed its the same people, can you please provide evidence to back up your claim?

Have you read those 5000 steam reviews? No, I have not read 5,000 reviews! What I have done is skimmed the highest rated and top 150-200 or so reviews, and found that P2P is either the sole gripe, or one of the top issues the reviewer had. Assuming linear probability, and allowing for some statistical disparity down the 5,000 or so reviews, it should lead anyone to safely assume a paradigm of causation.

You use words "probably", "safe assumption" without providing anything to back it up. You can't expect that thread from 2 month ago, is going to be determinant of how good the game works : Using those words is simply airing on the side of caution with wording, so as to concede that "maybe there are some false positives". Even though I believe everyone signed that petition because of P2P issues, im simply allowing wiggle room incase there may be a handfull that didnt.

As for evidence.... Ive given you plenty, but you are burying your head in the sand, in the face of overwhelming evidence. Compare the reviews for this game to any other recent AAA, and its clear that people are having issues with P2P.

Also, yes you can expect threads and petitions from 2 months ago to hold relevant now, considering the game has not improved, still has the same P2P system (most have argued its worse than beta, with the popular poll that went around the forum backing up my claim), and has made some mechanics worse (guardbreak) and included bugs that were abscent from beta (PK stabs amoung others). If the game had drastically changed, or in fact changed much at all I would be inclined to agree with you. But since it hasnt, those petitions, reviews, comments, posts, complaints, and videos hold relevant now more than ever.

1. And Lineage II on realese of russian official free server was OVERWHELMED with posts about "unable to connect. About 10 new thread with EACH refresh. And that was FREE game. As far as it comes to evidence of same people writing same stuff. This forum. You will see same nicks over and over and over again. You are free to disagree but I do not care that much to spend couple of hours to go through those and prove it to you(you know...cause game works for me)

2. P2P being problem? Did they stated that they are unable to play entirely? Or just exaggerating their problems? I was watching one stream for 2 hours and during that time he had TWO synchronizing issues and one issue with "unable to join full que" and he was ranting as if for whole 2 hours he wasn't able to play.

3.Ok, lets assume that. We go 1500 signs of petition. Not even 1% of players... So we can safely assume that problem is almost nonexisting.

4. No evidence so far besides top 20k likes on youtube video. That is no proof.

5. No they are no longer reliable. Why? Cause it only proves that there is no such thing as GLOBAL problem with the game, 2 month old things are showing that people didn't like this in beta but now? Silence?

In game such as For Honor dedicated servers would mean much higher lags(depending on distance to server) and much more people that WOULD be unable to play because of those.

[SerArthur-Dayne]

1. And Lineage II on realese of russian official free server was OVERWHELMED with posts about "unable to connect. About 10 new thread with EACH refresh. And that was FREE game. As far as it comes to evidence of same people writing same stuff. This forum. You will see same nicks over and over and over again. You are free to disagree but I do not care that much to spend couple of hours to go through those and prove it to you(you know...cause game works for me)

2. P2P being problem? Did they stated that they are unable to play entirely? Or just exaggerating their problems? I was watching one stream for 2 hours and during that time he had TWO synchronizing issues and one issue with "unable to join full que" and he was ranting as if for whole 2 hours he wasn't able to play.

3.Ok, lets assume that. We go 1500 signs of petition. Not even 1% of players... So we can safely assume that problem is almost nonexisting.

4. No evidence so far besides top 20k likes on youtube video. That is no proof.

5. No they are no longer reliable. Why? Cause it only proves that there is no such thing as GLOBAL problem with the game, 2 month old things are showing that people didn't like this in beta but now? Silence?

In game such as For Honor dedicated servers would mean much higher lags(depending on distance to server) and much more people that WOULD be unable to play because of those.

1. Maybe thats why ive never heard of that game. Because its dead and no one cares about it.

2. Again, just pure speculation. Taking one anecdotal piece of evidence where we just have to take your word for it. And then blanketing that over everyones issues. This is attempting to pidgeon hole one example to fit everyones.

3. This is where I take major issue with your entire form of reasoning. Thats not how statistics and probabilities work at all (which is what we are trying to establish given the evidence we both have). And im sorry but youre using feminist reasoning.

This is your reasoning: 6,300 people have left positive steam reviews. Given the 280,000 players (just quoting your figure of total players) own this game, this MUST mean that 273,700 players are having issues with this game because they havent reported a positive review.

If a shop sells 10,000 cartons of milk that are spoiled, yet say only 200 come in to complain, that does automatically mean only 200 bad cartons of milk were sold. It just means theres probably 9,800 people that will just silently go to a different shop the next time.

A better indication shoud be that 45% of people are leaving negative reviews on steam, evidently because of peer to peer and poor matchmaking.

4. given you plenty & It is

5. Theres no silence now? what? Every second or third thread is a new petition or rant about the P2P. And yes its still relevant because nothing has changed...

[SiewcaRaka]

1. Maybe thats why ive never heard of that game. Because its dead and no one cares about it.

2. Again, just pure speculation. Taking one anecdotal piece of evidence where we just have to take your word for it. And then blanketing that over everyones issues. This is attempting to pidgeon hole one example to fit everyones.

3. This is where I take major issue with your entire form of reasoning. Thats not how statistics and probabilities work at all (which is what we are trying to establish given the evidence we both have). And im sorry but youre using feminist reasoning.

This is your reasoning: 6,300 people have left positive steam reviews. Given the 280,000 players (just quoting your figure of total players) own this game, this MUST mean that 273,700 players are having issues with this game because they havent reported a positive review.

If a shop sells 10,000 cartons of milk that are spoiled, yet say only 200 come in to complain, that does automatically mean only 200 bad cartons of milk were sold. It just means theres probably 9,800 people that will just silently go to a different shop the next time.

A better indication shoud be that 45% of people are leaving negative reviews on steam, evidently because of peer to peer and poor matchmaking.

4. given you plenty & It is

5. Theres no silence now? what? Every second or third thread is a new petition or rant about the P2P. And yes its still relevant because nothing has changed...

1. 800k players during opening sure might be small game
2.You do the exact same thing. "I got problem, and some others got problem so everyone got problem".petitio principi.
3. No. You got 200 cartons of milk that you KNOW are bad. You can test your hypothesis to see if "majority" was bad. But it doesn't mean that 9800 are probably bad right away. You can't connect 2% to whole population when it comes to bad. Then again - People that CAN'T PLAY got reason to complain about game, while those that CAN play just FINE got no reason besides the fact that they want to write review.
4. Ok ill reply in the same manner. You didn't give even one and No it isn.
5.Every second? Exaggerating much? And it is no relevant cause things have changed...Some of those DO NOT OWN A COPY OF A GAME. 2 Months ago they played beta, now not everyone plays official release.

[troops_2015]

1. 800k players during opening sure might be small game
2.You do the exact same thing. "I got problem, and some others got problem so everyone got problem".petitio principi.
3. No. You got 200 cartons of milk that you KNOW are bad. You can test your hypothesis to see if "majority" was bad. But it doesn't mean that 9800 are probably bad right away. You can't connect 2% to whole population when it comes to bad. Then again - People that CAN'T PLAY got reason to complain about game, while those that CAN play just FINE got no reason besides the fact that they want to write review.
4. Ok ill reply in the same manner. You didn't give even one and No it isn.
5.Every second? Exaggerating much? And it is no relevant cause things have changed...Some of those DO NOT OWN A COPY OF A GAME. 2 Months ago they played beta, now not everyone plays official release.

I know you don't want to talk to me anymore but I felt it only fair to say that I do, in some regards, agree with you.

"3. People that cant play got reason to complain..."

But they don't have reason enough to say "the game is broken" as that could well imply that it doesn't work at all for anybody at any time, or even, doesn't work well enough, for enough people, enough of the time and neither of those statements I actually hold to be true.

I think if some one is venting some frustration the nice thing to do would be just let them but that is another matter entirely.