Warden vs Peacekeeper at high levels. It's not even close | Forums

[DrExtrem]

Zone attacks in general should be reevaluated.

What is their purpose?
They are a tool vs. minions forst and foremost and they are a costly tool to prevent charge ups and unblocksbles, you can not dodge.

How should they behave?
They need to be a fast but draining aoe (area of effect) but it does not need to deal a lot of damage. Only enough damage + 1, to kill minions. One point of damage is enough, to interrupt. The wardens zone attack is almost perfect in that case - it only deals too much damage. Like all the other zone attacks as well.

Warden specific.
The wardens zone attack is very costly but it is fast. A warden is not going to spam it. Almost all of his other attacks however, are pretty slow. His heavy attacks are ludicrously easy to parry and basically useless outside of a counter attack or GB. His side lights are ok and a second one can connect but they don't deal a lot of damage. The only other option is his upper light but everybody knows that.

[Hogmin]

I'd like to know what factors determine this so-called "high level" play? Your reputation rank? Because if that's the case there's plenty of high rep players that are garbage.

[DrExtrem]

I'd like to know what factors determine this so-called "high level" play? Your reputation rank? Because if that's the case there's plenty of high rep players that are garbage.

Imho, it is about counter guard breaking, parrying, dodging and blocking almost everything, that is thrown at you.l and being able to take an advantage out of it. In addition, you should be able to pull off faints to lure the enemy into traps.

i am not a high level player - I am an old scrub.

[Hogmin]

Imho, it is about counter guard breaking, parrying, dodging and blocking almost everything, that is thrown at you.l and being able to take an advantage out of it. In addition, you should be able to pull off faints to lure the enemy into traps.

i am not a high level player - I am an old scrub.

I get that, and I mostly agree but people are throwing out sentences like "at high level play" and I'd like to know A) How they know what it's like, and B) What exactly makes it "high level play" if that makes sense.


I can claim that Lawbringer is perfectly viable at high level play, but that's a lie if I don't actually play at those levels, and I sincerely doubt that everyone who posts in relation to this is actually IN high level play themselves.

[Waynedetta40k]

A) How they know what it's like.

They do not know it but they assume it.
Look at the TC, he properly does not know much about how to counter shouldercharge and zoneattack.
He can not be highlevel, its bascicially impossible to be "highlevel" and go to the forums and complain
No high level player ever will do that because they just figure out how to work around that stuff.
Highlevel play comes with a "high level mindset".

I have sunk 40h into pvp Iam around 80% winrate with my warden and have played lots of duels.
Most of them are garbage duell when my opponent will button mash and then complain about warden beeing op and CBG never working (While i CGB basicially every random gb he throws at me)
In 2 days I played against 1 decent kensei (we feinted and canceled Heavys which were supposed to be parrys when we both fell for a feint) which was a ****ing awesome duell really intense
And against a really good PK who abused his chains (he started out of range and came right into my range when his second fast hit would land)
There also was a decent valkyre she totally adapted to my OP zone attacks and basicially blocked all of them into free GB. When I adpapted she often would counter me with that shield charge which is also a 50/50? I am not really sure because I rarlely played against this hero but she did shieldcharge and then could decide either to throw me on the ground which would requiere me to dodge or do a GB...
So with 40h into PVP ~80%winrate I met a total of 3 decent players, rest only button mashers. But the good players do exist and i doubt they would go to the forums and complain because why would they? They could handle any "Cheese" and "spam" tactics...

[Hogmin]

They do not know it but they assume it.
Look at the TC, he properly does not know much about how to counter shouldercharge and zoneattack.
He can not be highlevel, its bascicially impossible to be "highlevel" and go to the forums and complain
No high level player ever will do that because they just figure out how to work around that stuff.
Highlevel play comes with a "high level mindset".

I have sunk 40h into pvp Iam around 80% winrate with my warden and have played lots of duels.
Most of them are garbage duell when my opponent will button mash and then complain about warden beeing op and CBG never working (While i CGB basicially every random gb he throws at me)
In 2 days I played against 1 decent kensei (we feinted and canceled Heavys which were supposed to be parrys when we both fell for a feint) which was a ****ing awesome duell really intense
And against a really good PK who abused his chains (he started out of range and came right into my range when his second fast hit would land)
There also was a decent valkyre she totally adapted to my OP zone attacks and basicially blocked all of them into free GB. When I adpapted she often would counter me with that shield charge which is also a 50/50? I am not really sure because I rarlely played against this hero but she did shieldcharge and then could decide either to throw me on the ground which would requiere me to dodge or do a GB...
So with 40h into PVP ~80%winrate I met a total of 3 decent players, rest only button mashers. But the good players do exist and i doubt they would go to the forums and complain because why would they? They could handle any "Cheese" and "spam" tactics...

I also don't think all of this is true, either. A lot of "pros" and such on other...for lack of a better word, "Esport-y" titles will often complain if something is terribly imbalanced. In this case it just happens to be Warden's Shouldervortex among other things. That said I don't believe OP is high level, and I think people assuming they know what high tier play is like can lead to some terrible balancing decisions should Ubi listen to them.

[kidico]

battlefy 1on1 tournament from last week. Pov from extheleonx and keehu

2:38:00

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/123101855

i don´t find the video.. it must be somewhere there.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/123965156

the games where very interesting and having insight on both sides thought process was very interesting. You see exactly that both are hesitant to engage (which made the games somewhat intense but also a weird standoff)

He said in the video that you can't beat a defensive warlord or conqueror as PK if they know what they're doing so the mismatches are real and that warden has no real mismatches. Not to mention this supposed best PK in the world also constantly loses to orochis on a lesser skill level than him. Like I said before the mismatch even with orochis is real.

So many mismatches for PK and no real mismatches for warden makes warden played so much more at higher levels.

Also notice how he has to feint his second zone attack every time or any decent player or even noob will parry it since it's so slow. Zone attack then feinting the second attack is like 70% of his stamina, one of the reasons he's always exhausted. If his reaction time was a little worse then it wouldn't be worth it to use zone attack for him against good players. Warden's zone is so much better it's not even funny.

Also he notices other weaknesses in PK like if you parry you can't get a guaranteed punish which is ridiculous and needs to be looked at. Also mentions how PK's deflection into counterattack can be blocked and is not guaranteed damage also needs to be looked at.

[FuriousMaximus]

I don't think I've ever seen someone cry harder on a forum after obviously being rekt 1v1.

Game is a week old and he's going on about the opinion of "pros". LOL SO CLUELESS.

OP... have you ever heard of a game called rock, paper, scissors?

[kidico]

I don't think I've ever seen someone cry harder on a forum after obviously being rekt 1v1.

Game is a week old and he's going on about the opinion of "pros". LOL SO CLUELESS.

OP... have you ever heard of a game called rock, paper, scissors?

It's not rock, paper, scissors when most classes are a mismatch for PK at higher levels of play and the Warden has no mismatches.

[Cyb3rR4ptor]

I'd like to know what factors determine this so-called "high level" play? Your reputation rank? Because if that's the case there's plenty of high rep players that are garbage.

What is "high level play"?
High Level Play is a scenario where all participants have shown proficient capacity to play the game with high success.

How does the game measure this success?
Most games measure success by Win/lose ratio. Or other games by Kill/Death ratio. In the case of For Honor it's Win/Lose. IF, AND IF, the matchmaking worked properly a player with 60% win/lose ratio should be paired up to play someone with the same %. And by following this pattern those who win get to play against each other and those who lose go the same track. So in a long run a player with a high Win/lose ratio should be considered skilled because he is able to CONSISTENTLY keep his win % higher than his losing % by a large margin. KEY WORD is CONSISTENTLY, because anyone can catch a lucky break and get 10 wins in a row to increase his %, but if he fails to keep the wins stacking up over his defeats his % will lower.
But that's not the case for online games, since if the matchmaking can't find a suitable opponent (what happens always) it will pair you up with someone else regardless of % or level.
The best place to see players with "skill" are tournaments. Those who win (which should be those with skill) are the ones to proceed to the next round, and it basically filters out who has more skill etc etc.
The higher you end in the tournament results showcase of how good you are at the game compared to the rest of the participants.