Conqueror VS Warlord: a sort of in depth look at balance | Forums

[Tinparts]

Let me start by saying I main conq and am currently reputation 6, so there is certainly bias in this. Let me also note i play mostly duels so i wont get too into gear stats or teamfights.

I just wanted to take a quick look at the strengths and weaknesses of these two heroes, particularly against each other. I would very much appreciate some feedback, helpful suggestions or if you just want to tell me im garbage or to git gud thats fine too, im working on it.
If you are very familiar with the characters movesets you can totally skip this part.

We can start with the attacks.

WARLORD
Light attacks come out decently fast. Simple enough to block, a bit harder to parry but not impossible.
Heavy attacks do decent damage. Easy to parry but come with super armor if you decide to try and interrupt instead. punishable on block by conq.
Zone attack comes out pretty fast. Attack direction indicator lies about where its coming from on activation (i heard this is a bug but im not sure), character animation becomes easy to spot after practice and keeping your guard to the right seems to work and can usually deter it from coming as it is punishable. Big stamina usage.
Running attack is easy to see coming, does decent damage. basically just a running heavy with excellent tracking.
Combos are simple and limited. HA into LA or LA into HA. Not completely useless, can bait an enemy into a mistake from range.

CONQUEROR
Light attacks are decently fast. about the same as warlord. Currently bugged to allow a free gb after block but that is confirmed to be getting fixed. Still not unusable, can catch an enemy off guard.
Heavy attack is weakest in the game. Unable to execute an enemy at 1 health bar(25hp). Charging it to charge level 1 or two increases the damage considerably, and releasing the heavy attack makes a small auto-parry window at beginning of attack. Many times a parry attempt will turn into a heavy attack with a block at the start, which sometimes hits and other times gets blocked.
Zone attack is useless against players, great against minions. Does about a light attacks worth of damage per hit, can sometimes hit twice. (correct me if im wrong about the damage, i never use it against players)
Running attack doesnt seem to really exist. Running and throwing a heavy does an attack that is basically just a standing no-lock-on heavy. Not very useful or flashy but can still catch fleeing opponents occasionally.
Infinicombo on light attacks is fun but never worth using against someone who has played the game for at least an hour. You can start it at range but most players can time an attack in between. Can occasionally catch a panicking opponent with a few swings, or jsut take a risk and throw 1 extra if you think your opponent truly wont expect it.

So far we seem almost even, minus the bugs conqueror has a bit of an edge in regard to attacks.
Now lets get into specials.

WARLORD
Guard stance blocks all attacks at a stamina cost. Can be used after headbutt/shouldercharge/shieldbash/nobushis kick to block the followup attack (please correct me if im wrong here i didnt test this enough)
Headbutt activates from guard stance or after a forward dash. Can be activated as soon as dash is, interrupting the dash and starting the headbutt. Headbutts animation is considerably faster than conquerors shield bash. Costs stamina and drains a bit of an opponents. dashing to the side can dodge, but must be activated the moment headbutt is. dashing in anticipation will get you guardbroken.
Running shield bash? carries opponents decently far, about the same as lawbringers piercing run attack. Can easily wallslam or ringout with right trajectory.

CONQUEROR
Guard stance is about the same as warlord. Can also be used to negate followup damage at great stamina cost and risk of being knocked down when exhausted.
Shield bash has two different forms. 1st is heavy>shieldbash OR guardstance >shieldbash. These push from up close and will cause a wallstun to cornered opponents. 2nd is dash>shieldbash, which does not cause wallstuns. Conq can dash in any direction but backwards to activate. Dash must partially finish (about 1/4 of the animation at least) to activate. Shield bash's animation is a bit longer than headbutts' and cant be canceled. generally safe to use. costs a bit of stam and drains a little bit.
Running bash knocks down opponents instead of pushing. Can always be followed up by a heavy attack, but using one guarantees a free gb for your opponent as they stand up.

In Practice
In actual duels, games usually turn into headbutt vs shieldbash with light attacks peppered in as a mix up. dodges are punished with gbs, heavies are always parried. running specials are punished with dash specials. The games always turn into a battle of stamina, with warlord almost always on top

The problem i run into is the fact that warlord headbutts faster than conq can shieldbash. The best a conq can hope for is a special trade. When conq dashes to start his bash, a good warlord has time to gb before it activates, while a conq would only be able to if the warlord seriously delayed his headbutt. When the game is almost completely reliant on gb punishes, it doesnt make much sense that conq has no heavy attack that can do 25 damage.

All in all, i do believe at equal skill conq can never beat warlord in a duel, and i believe we have seen this in tournaments, with warlords always taking the prize. I think some VERY minor balance changes should be looked at here

If im missing anything or if im plain wrong about anything please let me know. Im trying to learn the game and the matchups as much as possible and anyone else who reads this or the comments can learn a thing or two as well.

[Aarpian]

Go watch the tournament final from DMbrandon's latest host. You'll see me vs Cuteanimegirl, Warlord vs Conqueror. In the final round I slap his **** with conq... before getting ledged 3 times

It's a very even matchup.

[Knight_Raime]

I don't see why people compare them. they both have shields sure but they both serve different purposes. warlord IS stronger on offense because he's a counter attacker. Just as conq is better at defense because that's his job. I've played a ton of conq and I always dump on warlords. they can't do anything to you if you time your bashes right.

[Aarpian]

I don't see why people compare them. they both have shields sure but they both serve different purposes. warlord IS stronger on offense because he's a counter attacker. Just as conq is better at defense because that's his job. I've played a ton of conq and I always dump on warlords. they can't do anything to you if you time your bashes right.

It's actually the other way around. Conqueror is stronger on offense because his shield bash is extremely safe and can be used in a variety of ways, where-as warlord is better on defence because his all-block can be used to respond to almost anything.

[Kemorand]

Go watch the tournament final from DMbrandon's latest host. You'll see me vs Cuteanimegirl, Warlord vs Conqueror. In the final round I slap his **** with conq... before getting ledged 3 times

It's a very even matchup.

Interesting. Can't find that thing anywhere though, got some link or something?