Revenge build makes the game better (should be nerfed in 1v1) | Forums

[Allyrion8]

Here's the thing - I prefer matches when everyone fights 1v1. I help teammates in need if necessary but I don't run into every fight and feed the enemy revenge. You can zone them and if they want to do 2v1, I can respect that. I would attack from behind if they're about to last hit my ally.

But for the most part, I try to play with some fairness once it doesn't hurt the team. Team fights (and environmental kills) are part of the game and that's just how it is.

And so is Revenge.

After getting a Revenge build, this game has become much more enjoyable. Not because I'm beating everyone but because ganking is less effective. People argue the game was designed around team fighting in 4v4, but a lot of the same posters are arguing against revenge.

You can't be like "Well that's how the game is designed" for one and not the other. Clearly you just want the game's design to fit how you want to play, like basically everyone.

I absolutely think you shouldn't get revenge in 1v1 and full revenge set should be baseline so there's no discrepancy with gear levels. It's a broken mechanic when only fighting 1v1 but Xv1 is fine.

If you're glad team fights are part of the game, I'm glad Revenge is a natural balancer in such situations. If you're with the "Honor" crowd, you should feel the same (once they nerf it in 1v1) and if you're with the "Use any means necessary" crowd you'd be hypocritical to call out this one mechanic you don't agree with.

I think it's a nice mechanic that balances both side. It's another tool in the arsenal of people who try to use all their resources, while also encouraging 1v1 or smart approaching to team fights.

It feels better when I get killed without ever getting Revenge (my fault) or getting revenge and still killed by a proper gank. Battles are more satisfying even when you lose because you know you had a chance with Revenge, but you were outplayed rather than just outnumbered.

[Dzehenuti]

Here's the thing - I prefer matches when everyone fights 1v1. I help teammates in need if necessary but I don't run into every fight and feed the enemy revenge. You can zone them and if they want to do 2v1, I can respect that. I would attack from behind if they're about to last hit my ally.

But for the most part, I try to play with some fairness once it doesn't hurt the team. Team fights (and environmental kills) are part of the game and that's just how it is.

And so is Revenge.

After getting a Revenge build, this game has become much more enjoyable. Not because I'm beating everyone but because ganking is less effective. People argue the game was designed around team fighting in 4v4, but a lot of the same posters are arguing against revenge.

You can't be like "Well that's how the game is designed" for one and not the other. Clearly you just want the game's design to fit how you want to play, like basically everyone.

I absolutely think you shouldn't get revenge in 1v1 and full revenge set should be baseline so there's no discrepancy with gear levels. It's a broken mechanic when only fighting 1v1 but Xv1 is fine.

If you're glad team fights are part of the game, I'm glad Revenge is a natural balancer in such situations. If you're with the "Honor" crowd, you should feel the same (once they nerf it in 1v1) and if you're with the "Use any means necessary" crowd you'd be hypocritical to call out this one mechanic you don't agree with.

I think it's a nice mechanic that balances both side. It's another tool in the arsenal of people who try to use all their resources, while also encouraging 1v1 or smart approaching to team fights.

It feels better when I get killed without ever getting Revenge (my fault) or getting revenge and still killed by a proper gank. Battles are more satisfying even when you lose because you know you had a chance with Revenge, but you were outplayed rather than just outnumbered.

Revenge is unreal.... need be a removed totally from game. You can block, dodge, parry. Revenge is for players which need a "CHEAT MOD"

[Allyrion8]

Revenge is unreal.... need be a removed totally from game. You can block, dodge, parry. Revenge is for players which need a "CHEAT MOD"

Give me a better argument than that. If it's appropriately nerfed for 1v1 then it would never pop during a normal fight. It would only work against multiple enemies which just puts you on more equal ground against multiple enemies.

Even now that's 90% of its use even with full revenge. There are a million ways to counter after it's popped and you can avoid it popping by 1v1ing or careful team fights.

I don't need Revenge for 1v1.

[XORaptor0]

Revenge should only be acquirable when you're being outnumbered.
Only in a certain proximity of multiple opponents, when teammates are outside of that proximity should revenge start building up.

But, I agree we need revenge for X>1 Vs 1 situations.

[KSI_Iscyn]

Give me a better argument than that. If it's appropriately nerfed for 1v1 then it would never pop during a normal fight. It would only work against multiple enemies which just puts you on more equal ground against multiple enemies.

Even now that's 90% of its use even with full revenge. There are a million ways to counter after it's popped and you can avoid it popping by 1v1ing or careful team fights.

I don't need Revenge for 1v1.

You can not avoid it in team fights in high end gear. 0 defense weapons with a max revenge gain from injury will cause revenge to be gained from 1 hit if they blocked anything or have revenge on attack 2 hits worst case scenario.
Please try it your self revenge by injury maxed with revenge attack secondary, revenge mode defense maxed with feat cool down (very scary) or revenge from defense secondary, 0 defense weapon with max attack stamina secondary. revenge mode duration 0. You will go into revenge mode heal 30% health and laugh as people try to chunk the shield and health. If they back off and wait for it to wear off you will heal faster than they can deal damage. If you even consider the feats you can get on certain classes it becomes insane (Shugoki). There is also other stats that can be punishing as well, such as block damage. My raider in revenge can do massive chip damage. Yes these are "end" games builds but rep 3 is no where near hard to get, Please do some theory crafting and testing then reply.

[Ezcendant]

I'm fine with default revenge (except in 1v1 and maybe brawl). The problem is gear. With 108 revenge focused gear you only need to parry a guy a couple of times or be hit a few and you;ve got it up 1v1. Sure, if the other guy is stacking it too I guess it's technically even, but it's still not fun.

[Allyrion8]

You can not avoid it in team fights in high end gear. 0 defense weapons with a max revenge gain from injury will cause revenge to be gained from 1 hit if they blocked anything or have revenge on attack 2 hits worst case scenario.
Please try it your self revenge by injury maxed with revenge attack secondary, revenge mode defense maxed with feat cool down (very scary) or revenge from defense secondary, 0 defense weapon with max attack stamina secondary. revenge mode duration 0. You will go into revenge mode heal 30% health and laugh as people try to chunk the shield and health. If they back off and wait for it to wear off you will heal faster than they can deal damage. If you even consider the feats you can get on certain classes it becomes insane (Shugoki). There is also other stats that can be punishing as well, such as block damage. My raider in revenge can do massive chip damage. Yes these are "end" games builds but rep 3 is no where near hard to get, Please do some theory crafting and testing then reply.

I've done the testing before making the post. You can avoid revenge if you only interrupt the enemy at the right time and let one other person fight.

I said to reduce Revenge on 1v1, they can remove it entirely and I wouldn't care once it stays the same in multiple enemy situation. People freak out when someone pops Revenge but they can be interrupted with gb to buy time or if they're spamming attacks they can be out dps'd once you parry.

Or just wait them out and then once person takes them on so they don't get it back right away.

Revenge is just an anti-ganking feature. What's the problem with that? As I've said multiple times it's too strong when proc'ed in 1v1 but it's working fine in evening odds against multiple enemies.

I'm running full revenge and I definitely see it being counterable. You just have to play smarter and approach slower. People just like to spam attacks too much. It makes approaching much more tactical.

I've been on the other side too, against full revenge builds. If I'm their focus then I bait and parry/dogde attacks as I can. But my allies, if smart, will guard break at the right times or attack if they're just spamming.

Is it guaranteed the revenge enemy will die? No, that depends on the skill of the players involved. But it's not an "I win" button if the enemies know how to work together.

That's why it's good for the game, because team fights have to be tactical instead of just zerging people as a gang spamming attacks.

I don't really like team fights despite coming from a Moba/raid background. But it has a good place here only because revenge punishes sloppy play.

I'm okay with how ganking works in this game because we have this mechanic to balance the scales. But if you're okay with ganging up as a designed tactic, you should accept that people can gear to counter that advantage using an in-game mechanic.

I'm fine with default revenge (except in 1v1 and maybe brawl). The problem is gear. With 108 revenge focused gear you only need to parry a guy a couple of times or be hit a few and you;ve got it up 1v1. Sure, if the other guy is stacking it too I guess it's technically even, but it's still not fun.

I have full revenge and that's a bit of an exaggeration. But I do agree. It should just not work one 1v1 but the gain in Xv1 increased so it builds as it does now against multiple enemies.

[PackingMoney]

Give me a better argument than that. If it's appropriately nerfed for 1v1 then it would never pop during a normal fight. It would only work against multiple enemies which just puts you on more equal ground against multiple enemies.

Even now that's 90% of its use even with full revenge. There are a million ways to counter after it's popped and you can avoid it popping by 1v1ing or careful team fights.

I don't need Revenge for 1v1.

I don't think he means 1v1s, but duels instead.

[Allyrion8]

I don't think he means 1v1s, but duels instead.

Do you mean me? I mean 1v1 as in fighting one opponent in 4v4. Not Duels which is the game mode or even Brawl because gear isn't even a thing there.

The person I was replying to just wants it removed altogether regardless of mode.

I don't think Revenge should work in any 1v1, including Duels.

[The_Quieter]

Revenge gear is screwing up the end game hard core and needs to be fixed hard and fast.