light attack spamming PK | Forums

[SethUnleashed]

so i finally found something that i can actually really rage about xD

i have no problem against any class considering blocking in general and parries for the most part, but light-attack spamming PKs are out of this world.

if you have the SLIGHTEST lag (and i literally mean the smallest lag) you will hardly ever block (or even parry) her first attack, and never catch her second as it is actually faster than the first (just a few frames but enough to make it a pain).
trying to deflect her will end in failure more often than parrying due to the fact that your recovery-frames and the time it takes to initiate a dodge are longer than it takes her follow-up hits to connect, so if you cant avoid the first hit in a series of attacks, you shouldnt even try to dodge as it wont work.

and here is why this bothers me so much:
the amount of skill it takes to play a light attack PK in comparison to the amount of skill AND reaction-time needed to beat them is in no proportion in my opinion.

i really dont mind getting my *** handed to me by a good warden or failing to parry and orochis storm rush once in a while, but PKs are just infuriating.
i am mainly playing valk and i manage to make her work pretty well considering her current state.

a class should NEVER win by just using light-attacks and maybe one combo (which comes out of a side-dodge-attack...)

i have no problem with her bleeds or combos in general, but as mentioned befor, she needs little to no skill but can win easily if her oponent hasnt got a VERY stable connection (which isnt even up to him alone ... thx p2p)


and before the "git gud" crowd shows up here:

i have done costum-match tests with a friend and i can tell you some things i've seen there:

- blocking with the valk is harder than with a warden (not much, but you can feel a difference) which probably is due to the fact that classes have different guard-swap speeds.
- dodging her 2nd light is impossible after getting hit by the first (recovery-length etc)
- parrying her 2nd light is borderline impossible after getting hit by the first UNLESS you are already in the correct guard-position (which you rarely are)
- GB her side-dodges almost never connect as PKs almost always go for side-dodge-attacks and appearantly you cannot GB counter them, not even early into the animation.
- even if you get a block in, her recovery is insanly fast and she can just keep up the pressure


EDIT:
also, her attack-range seems really weird considering her short sword... she sometimes just lunges forward with any attack (not the forward-dodge-attack jump) and hits you from 2+ meters away.
this should be looked at, as it seems her tracking is (kinda like kensei's) a bit too good.


possible solutions: (not necessarily all of them, but just to list a few)
- nerf her light attack damage to the valks current light-damage (about a 20-30% reduction) to make PKs consider using more than one attack (aka, its too rewarding for almost zero risk)
- nerf her recovery slightly so that you can actually react to her.
- nerf her 2nd light attack speed. her attacks are fast enough already, she really doesnt need to have the second fastest attack in her arsenal as well

[Gurkburk92]

I agree. Damage on peacekeepers light attack is too much.

All classes should be required to "mix it up" to win.

Also. Recovery time to a deflected/blocked attack is too fast.

I'll settle for a light attack damage nerf of at least 20% on the peacekeepers.

[HollowFactor]

so i finally found something that i can actually really rage about xD

i have no problem against any class considering blocking in general and parries for the most part, but light-attack spamming PKs are out of this world.

if you have the SLIGHTEST lag (and i literally mean the smallest lag) you will hardly ever block (or even parry) her first attack, and never catch her second as it is actually faster than the first (just a few frames but enough to make it a pain).
trying to deflect her will end in failure more often than parrying due to the fact that your recovery-frames and the time it takes to initiate a dodge are longer than it takes her follow-up hits to connect, so if you cant avoid the first hit in a series of attacks, you shouldnt even try to dodge as it wont work.

and here is why this bothers me so much:
the amount of skill it takes to play a light attack PK in comparison to the amount of skill AND reaction-time needed to beat them is in no proportion in my opinion.

i really dont mind getting my *** handed to me by a good warden or failing to parry and orochis storm rush once in a while, but PKs are just infuriating.
i am mainly playing valk and i manage to make her work pretty well considering her current state.

a class should NEVER win by just using light-attacks and maybe one combo (which comes out of a side-dodge-attack...)

i have no problem with her bleeds or combos in general, but as mentioned befor, she needs little to no skill but can win easily if her oponent hasnt got a VERY stable connection (which isnt even up to him alone ... thx p2p)


and before the "git gud" crowd shows up here:

i have done costum-match tests with a friend and i can tell you some things i've seen there:

- blocking with the valk is harder than with a warden (not much, but you can feel a difference) which probably is due to the fact that classes have different guard-swap speeds.
- dodging her 2nd light is impossible after getting hit by the first (recovery-length etc)
- parrying her 2nd light is borderline impossible after getting hit by the first UNLESS you are already in the correct guard-position (which you rarely are)
- GB her side-dodges almost never connect as PKs almost always go for side-dodge-attacks and appearantly you cannot GB counter them, not even early into the animation.
- even if you get a block in, her recovery is insanly fast and she can just keep up the pressure



possible solutions: (not necessarily all of them, but just to list a few)
- nerf her light attack damage to the valks current light-damage (about a 20-30% reduction) to make PKs consider using more than one attack (aka, its too rewarding for almost zero risk)
- nerf her recovery slightly so that you can actually react to her.
- nerf her 2nd light attack speed. her attacks are fast enough already, she really doesnt need to have the second fastest attack in her arsenal as well

Depends on what you mean by spam. Spam is basically doing the same move over and over and over. I am more tactical with her r1's that way they don't become a spam. Example PK's lights can be used differently and in different directions left right up in any variation which is not a spam. I usually follow with a heavy, a bleed stab etc.

Now here is what spammers do. You use the stab mover or go for an attack and they use the side evade attack spin with berserker every time, which tends to get on your nerves even if you do know where they are going or a conqueror using the shield rush spam, or lawbringers using the R1, GB R1 or spear spam the whole match to win. Nobushi using her poison blade as a spam the whole match, raiders spamming heavy or their throws.

While I have seen some PK spam the dash forward attack but that doesn't bother me since you can dodge that and punish them hard.

you also have the warden who swings his sword like hes holding a kitchen knife.. and he moves so fat even with that much armor on him and a long sword which is also heavy, you got all these big guys moving like their wearing feather for armor.

especially if their all spamming the same move at the same time on 4v1

[XORaptor0]

Yes, please. It's almost impossible to block her light attacks because they come out faster than the Valkyrie can swap stances.

I'd also like to draw the same kind of attention toward Berserk's light attack as well. As it stands they're way too fast, and some classes don't swap stances fast enough to counter this. I don't think they should win because all they have to do is dodge, and spam RB like they're using DS3 estoc.

At least give their light attacks no stun so we can punish them for spamming or something.

[HollowFactor]

I agree. Damage on peacekeepers light attack is too much.

All classes should be required to "mix it up" to win.

Also. Recovery time to a deflected/blocked attack is too fast.

I'll settle for a light attack damage nerf of at least 20% on the peacekeepers.

It's possibly because people have some gear that makes her attacks take a lot of life. I know other characters who have killed me in two-three swings with how strong their attacks are.

[HollowFactor]

Yes, please. It's almost impossible to block her light attacks because they come out faster than the Valkyrie can swap stances.

I'd also like to draw the same kind of attention toward Berserk's light attack as well. As it stands they're way too fast, and some classes don't swap stances fast enough to counter this. I don't think they should win because all they have to do is dodge, and spam RB like they're using DS3 estoc.

At least give their light attacks no stun so we can punish them for spamming or something.

While agree Berserk's spam is aweful you can easily block it, now if your dashing to attack them and they use it and massage to punish you that seems fair.

[SethUnleashed]

made an edit, as i forgot something in the OP.

@berserkers:
yes their lights are fast BUT they mostly mix it up with heavies to try and get their chain started, so you can just eat one light and parry the next heavy.
defending against an offensive berserker isnt really a problem once you have blocking down.

but PKs are just even faster.

Depends on what you mean by spam. Spam is basically doing the same move over and over and over. I am more tactical with her r1's that way they don't become a spam. Example PK's lights can be used differently and in different directions left right up in any variation which is not a spam. I usually follow with a heavy, a bleed stab etc.

Now here is what spammers do. You use the stab mover or go for an attack and they use the side evade attack spin with berserker every time, which tends to get on your nerves even if you do know where they are going or a conqueror using the shield rush spam, or lawbringers using the R1, GB R1 or spear spam the whole match to win. Nobushi using her poison blade as a spam the whole match, raiders spamming heavy or their throws.

While I have seen some PK spam the dash forward attack but that doesn't bother me since you can dodge that and punish them hard.

you also have the warden who swings his sword like hes holding a kitchen knife.. and he moves so fat even with that much armor on him and a long sword which is also heavy, you got all these big guys moving like their wearing feather for armor.

especially if their all spamming the same move at the same time on 4v1

by spam i mean that most PKs mostly use light-attacks (also doesnt matter from which side they come from, if they use only light attacks in a row, it can be considered spam).

some of them mix in some heavy->light cancels which apply a bleed and are a bit easier to block than normal lights.
and if they know what they are doing, they wont even dodge at all, they just block/parry you as they know that their recovery is faster than most other classes so they can return to light attacks.

[SethUnleashed]

https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/co...k_a_pks_light/

This is tested with a Shugoki but since there are other characters such as nobushi and lawbringer that take as long as Shugoki to change guards, it applies to the other characters too. Lets get into this.

For the game itself to read any controller input (not sure about keyboards) it takes exactly 14 frames.
So basically you have to subtract 14 frames from the amount of frames normally required to block a PK light attack. 14 frames after the you input, the character(Shugoki) will finally start to change his guard. Then for a Shugoki it takes exactly another 9 frames after the input delay to change his guard. Which means it will take exactly 23 frames to successfully change the position of the block.
Now lets see how fast a PK's attack is. The sound appears after 17 frames the red arrow appears then another 7 frames for the game to actually confirm that the character has been hit.

Conclusion: A PK's light attack takes 24 frames after the red arrow while it takes a Shugoki (and several other characters) 23 frames to successfully change the position of their block.
That leaves the player exactly 1 frame for the person to react to the PK's light attack. Accounting for the server lag and the fact that everyone has normal human reactions, this is simply IMPOSSIBLE. That means a Shugoki or a Lawbringer must predict the attack before it the red arrow even appears and a parry is literally impossible. I know this game has lots of flaws especially the server problems but I believe this problem is one of the top priorities that has to be fixed for the game to be fair.
P.S for the PK mains out there. This doesn't make you guys the cancer of the game. I wouldn't blame you for abusing the most reliable tool of a hero. I just think that Ubisoft should hurry and do something about it.

just found this on reddit.
nothing else to add...

paired with the slightest lag, that is exactly what i'm experiencing ... you can block and dodge every class but the PK reliably due to this.

[Drachdhar]

Try versing PKs with a Raider... or any of the other fast classes, for instance valkyrie... Their heavies are about the same speed as Raider light attacks(not top light). Anything a Raider does can be light attack countered by most classes, incredibly easily if its a PK.
Now that is frustrating... And even if they run out of stamina they can just run away since they move so much faster. All ya can do is get so unbelievably fast that you consistently parry light attacks from the fast classes, not easy... Especially not when one considers that various TVs have different frame update speeds or whatever its called. Mine is about 6 years old, and often when I see the red, its just about enough time to get a block if you're lucky... Granted, I need to improve my reactions... working on it.
But its still frustrating as hell to get beat with such tactics constantly, no mix ups or feints or anything... Just spamming and turtling.

[Valtaya]

so i finally found something that i can actually really rage about xD

i have no problem against any class considering blocking in general and parries for the most part, but light-attack spamming PKs are out of this world.

if you have the SLIGHTEST lag (and i literally mean the smallest lag) you will hardly ever block (or even parry) her first attack, and never catch her second as it is actually faster than the first (just a few frames but enough to make it a pain).
trying to deflect her will end in failure more often than parrying due to the fact that your recovery-frames and the time it takes to initiate a dodge are longer than it takes her follow-up hits to connect, so if you cant avoid the first hit in a series of attacks, you shouldnt even try to dodge as it wont work.

and here is why this bothers me so much:
the amount of skill it takes to play a light attack PK in comparison to the amount of skill AND reaction-time needed to beat them is in no proportion in my opinion.

i really dont mind getting my *** handed to me by a good warden or failing to parry and orochis storm rush once in a while, but PKs are just infuriating.
i am mainly playing valk and i manage to make her work pretty well considering her current state.

a class should NEVER win by just using light-attacks and maybe one combo (which comes out of a side-dodge-attack...)

i have no problem with her bleeds or combos in general, but as mentioned befor, she needs little to no skill but can win easily if her oponent hasnt got a VERY stable connection (which isnt even up to him alone ... thx p2p)


and before the "git gud" crowd shows up here:

i have done costum-match tests with a friend and i can tell you some things i've seen there:

- blocking with the valk is harder than with a warden (not much, but you can feel a difference) which probably is due to the fact that classes have different guard-swap speeds.
- dodging her 2nd light is impossible after getting hit by the first (recovery-length etc)
- parrying her 2nd light is borderline impossible after getting hit by the first UNLESS you are already in the correct guard-position (which you rarely are)
- GB her side-dodges almost never connect as PKs almost always go for side-dodge-attacks and appearantly you cannot GB counter them, not even early into the animation.
- even if you get a block in, her recovery is insanly fast and she can just keep up the pressure


EDIT:
also, her attack-range seems really weird considering her short sword... she sometimes just lunges forward with any attack (not the forward-dodge-attack jump) and hits you from 2+ meters away.
this should be looked at, as it seems her tracking is (kinda like kensei's) a bit too good.


possible solutions: (not necessarily all of them, but just to list a few)
- nerf her light attack damage to the valks current light-damage (about a 20-30% reduction) to make PKs consider using more than one attack (aka, its too rewarding for almost zero risk)
- nerf her recovery slightly so that you can actually react to her.
- nerf her 2nd light attack speed. her attacks are fast enough already, she really doesnt need to have the second fastest attack in her arsenal as well

any class spams just one particular attack and one combo, PK is no different, wonder why you ***** about PK, what do YOU play?
as a PK player myself that is usualy at the receiving end of lag, I can tell you, spamming light is very often the only way to accomplish something and I hate it, and I know other PKs who hate it as well
the range of some weapons is ridiculous compared to the arming sword of the PK (you hear me, arming sword, NOT short sword), have you any actualy idea how close you have to be with the PK to actualy land light attacks? also always funny how this big fatties move so fast, they dash forward faster and have a higher range then PK can evade back... or dash forward.
If you can not beat a PK then I am realy sorry for you, because that is not realy difficult, of course if you have lag, you will beat noone, except stomping an ant... on the other hand, did you ask yourself what hapens if the PK have lag?

"a class should NEVER win by just using light-attacks and maybe one combo (which comes out of a side-dodge-attack...)" oh realy? Well, add the other 8 classes/heroes to the list then.

btw, hit a lawbrigner (raider, shoguki, kensei blabla whatever) with a heavy as a PK and nothing happens
hit the PK with such a class (lawbringer blabla) and PK 1/3 hp is gone and the PK staggers and is open for another heavy and another and then it is over
ONE bad move and the PK is history, while her oponents (even the other assassin classes) can afford 3-4times a mistake

if PK hits at 2+ meters, then you got lag, the PK is usualy much closer then, PK have to be in very close range to hit... close enough to get grabbed by anyone out there