Junior Member
After playing raider for two weeks extensively here are my thoughts
* Raider's light attacks are slow in comparison to wardens too light and kenseis top light. Raider light attacks also offer very little damage and becomes very predictable and slow.
* NONE of Raiders heavy attacks are guaranteed off of a guard break. Meanwhile other characters can such as warden,LB,berserk etc have them for very little stamina cost.
(The ONLY exception to a guaranteed Raider heavy is when you do a normal throw with raider and the opponent is knocked into a wall at a far distance and is still stunned in that duration for a heavy attack to work, but even then it happens very rarely and its only guaranteed if you throw someone to a wall far away thats not too close or it wont work.)
* Raider only has two combos that are guaranteed and do very little damage
When you guard break into unblockable
When you guard break into carry then follow up immediately with a unblockable
Side note: When you guard break then carry into wall stun then follow up with a unblockable IT IS NOT guaranteed as it can be parried.
The only way to maximize Raiders unblockable is to finish a combo with it to gain 2x damage, but even then it can be parried and requires too much stamina to be worthwhile.
* Raiders go to move is the stun tap that can be soft feinted from a heavy into a light. This attack can also be used when you dash into a light. Its a good move but can only attack top so It can be very predictable and its definitely not the best tool in the game compared to other fighters.
* Raiders carries, stampede charges and 360 no scope grab are really good grabs and most definitely probably the best in the game but what use does it have in higher level play?
*Raiders unblockable uses up way too much stamina in a fight to be a worthwhile attempt on the offense im battle. Cancelling just one unblockable loses 2/3 of raiders stamina and I often found myself retreating in battles. With raiders rather low damage with his unblockable and high cost, whats the point of even using it?
I really hope the developers did not give raider a very limited tool set because his grabs are good. Its a poor design choice as once someone learns to punish a Raider who's fishing for a guard break , what else can raider turn to? His high cost, parryable unblockable or his slow, not guaranteed heavies?
If ubisoft is giving valkyrie a minor adjustment why not give Raider an adjustment to make his heavies worthwhile by making them a bit faster or better yet lower the amount of stamina his unblockable uses for better combos chains. Another suggestion would be allowing raider to choose between two separate versions for his unblockable. One would a be a fast unblockable that does some damage and could be used to end combos . The other one would be used by holding on the unblockable for another second to make it slower but do two times the damage.
Raider is not in a good state within 1v1 duels especially against assasins as his lights and heavies are slow and I hope Ubisoft can somehow buff him to be viable against higher skilled players.
Junior Member
Junior Member
I love the Raider and it's my favourite class to play alongside Kensei but I have to agree with you with everything you've said. Playing against Peacekeepers and Orochis is an uphill battle as the moves you need to work the most on them (heavy attacks) are near impossible to hit them with. You can't get them off a guard break and they're so easily parried that you can't do them against a good player. Your best option is the unblockable and that burns so much stamina. I love playing as him but he's not in a good place right now, he definitely needs a few tweaks.
Member
Junior Member
I agree completely; and I play an orochi, the character you say are difficult to play against. As an orochi, against a competent raider, his attacks are extremely telegraphed and it is easy for me to dodge and go around their attacks, however your benefit is that as a raider, if you hit me, it hurts like a *****. I've fought against some badass raiders who deal half my health in two heavies i can't block or fail at blocking, and then get a good unblockable on me.
The only thing I think raiders need a nerf on, which i think this should apply to all classes who can 'carry' others, is that the carry should have a stamina drain so that the choice is a tactical one, not a 'go-to' move. I don't think anyone should be able to carry someone a distance without having at least SOME sort of stamina drain.
Again, this applies also to the Lawbringer, and the Warlord and to some extent the conqueror, but those three first classes are primarily the ones who can 'push'/'carry' people without having a stamina drain on them and still able to hit a lot of attacks.
Also to be fair (cause i AM an orochi) orochi's are squishy; teching their GB's and baiting spin to wins is the primary method for beating them since their health is so low, but i would argue that the berserker is harder to beat if you don't predict the types of moves they are planning to utilize; the Orochi has fairly telegraphed attacks (the ones that do the most damage, anyway) so he has to chip away at players health for him to do any lasting damage. Also, note that the REALLY good Orochi players are masters at blocking and parrying; it's what he is classified as, and it's how he is designd to play. there's nothing inherently wrong with him, but for peacekeepers i can agree the light attack mix up can be rough
Member
Member
I played Orochi main and then switched to Raider due to Orochi sucking at top level gameplay... Then I realized that Orochi might be low tier at top level gameplay; Raider is probably THE WORST at top level gameplay.
The lack of 100% heavy punish after a GB gives it really bad options. You don't respect his GB options unless you are fearful of env kills. Raider heavies are SO SLOW, that its feint is meaningless. People can actually react to your feints instead of guessing it. You cannot do that to a fast feinter like Warden or Peacekeeper.
I switched to Warden now, and finally was able to find a good class that can actually be unstoppable if you are a top level player.
Member
Everything you said is just right. Not sure how long we have to wait for buff patch though.
I am just curious. I know Warden is strong class with vortex but why is him better than Orochi ? I never tried warden but I tried Orochi. The flexibility is very good, the attacks are fast, GB punishment is great. I don't feel like it is low tier at all.Originally Posted by The_Mensan Go to original post
Member
That's exactly why... They are very similar EXCEPT Warden has more HP and also the Bash / GB 50/50 option which the Orochi doesn't have. Orochi is strictly worse than a Warden.Originally Posted by pongkrit03 Go to original post
Junior Member
I main warden, warlord and raider..
I consider raider as a strong pick if you maximize his potential..
If we don't follow the famous "code of honor" or something, we can play him with a lot of creativity..
Environment such as cliff, fire, spike, wall and tight space is made for raider
Not to mention, his kits allow him to gang effectively
We can kill the opponents before they go in revenge mode
