General Balance Discussion | Forums

[Somedudesome]

Hi guys, just wanted to give some of my own feedback on how things are going as a Rep 3 PK. First off, I want to say how awesome the balance currently is in comparison to other multiplayer-competitive games I've played so kudos to you guys/gals at Ubisoft. However, it's impossible to perfectly balance any game and even one such as this could always use tweaks. Here's a list of changes i'd like to be considered.

Knights

Warden: Arguably one of the strongest classes mostly due to having a lack of weaknesses. You can't contest the top due to crushing counter, has solid range and decent damage with average movement speed. As it stands, one of the most glaring issue's I see is the ability to cancel Shoulderbash into a GB. Recently, Warlord was able to do the samething with Headbutt but that got removed. I feel like the same change should happen here OR shorten the window to cancel but still allow it. One other move i'd like to see looked at is the Zone Attack, currently it has great speed with amazing reach. However, if blocked, you get a guaranteed Guard-break. I don't find this move particularly too strong but I do believe one of two things could be changed here. 1: Either slow it down slightly or two: Fix the indicator's popping from 1 direction to another, this seems to trip up a lot of people.

Conqueror: Excellent defense with a tad bit below-average damage output. This classes Shield bash is completely safe when playing against someone who's experienced. It's literally impossible to punish but is relatively fair since it doesn't have insane speed nor can it be cancelled into a guard-break. Not sure what should be done with this outside of having some sort of counter to it so you can punish a whiffed Shield bash. Also, this is something I've tested but the Conqueror is the only class that you cannot get a guaranteed heavy off of a light parry, his recovery time is shorter than the other classes(This from a PK's heavies).

Peacekeeper: Very short range with fast attacks and an even faster Zone attack, probably the fastest in the game. As a PK main, outside of the problematic bleeds that can be very punishing, my main concern is how fast the Zone attack is. I'd like to see 2 nerfs to her. One: Reduce the bleed damage on GB from 2 bars to 1 1/2, and either slow down her ZA so it can be reacted to OR remove the ability to cancel the second half of it.

Lawbringer: Solid health with less than average in-combat mobility. I'd like to see his side-lights sped up a little. His top-light has good speed so we can leave it at that. Not sure what else we could do with the big guy.


Samurai

Kensei: This guy feels relatively balanced even if he has the strongest lights in the game from the recent patch. Not sure what we could change with this one. Maybe speed on his side lights a tad.

Shugoki: Outside of the bugs related to his unblockable triggering hitting twice and not being able to be parried, there's only 1 change i'd like to see to this fella. His out-of-combat sprint that guarantee's a heavy on Knock down is a bit too strong. All I've been seeing is Goki's running around out of combat and either sprinting for a KD or cancelling into either a heavy/gb. I feel there needs to be a bit more of a startup to this ability.

Orochi: Fast, excellent damage. This guy is solid. Now some may hate me for saying this but I feel there needs to be at least 1, maybe 2 changes implemented to this class. First off, like the other Zone attacks mentioned, it most likely needs to be slowed down. Fast Zone attacks shouldn't be your best form of poke-damage. Secondly, and this one i'm not 100% sure on, look at their ability to get a guaranteed 2nd light off of the first one from the top. This combo does as much as a heavy while being MUCH faster. No other class in this game gets a guaranteed 2nd light with such speed(I know the warden can get it with his sides but it's much slower and you have to actually time the 2nd hit).

Nobushi: This is going to sound hilarious but I actually find her to be quite balanced. Granted she has excellent damage, range and speed. Idea's would be greatly appreciated.

Vikings

Raider: Good out-of-combat speed, solid damage. I feels the only real change this guy needs is slightly faster lights, something as an opener like other classes have.

Warlord: Even after the nerfs, this guy is still strong, just not head-over-heels above everyone else. His headbutt is still incredibly quick but much more fair. Again, this one is tough so I am not sure what to change on him.

Berserker: Outside of the bug that allows a Guardbreak from blocking a light, this one feels very balanced.

Valkyrie: Outside of lowering some recovery times, she's also very balanced. Fast and average damage with great range.


Closing comments

Like I said, this game feels VERY balanced as is outside of a few notable changes. Obviously these suggestions/comments are just my opinion and others may present a better argument. I hope we can have that discussion here, thank you.

[Shinimas]

Agreed on pretty much everything. Just a few little things to add:

Lawbringer: his main weakness is the lack of an attack after dodging, which makes fighting good Conquerors and Warlords incredibly difficult. I think his light attacks and especially after-Shove light attacks should be sped up. After-Shove lights are among the lowest damaging strikes in the game, there's really no reason for them to be that slow. With his Shove becoming a bit more dangerous this class will receive the needed offensive power and also a more punishing (albeit still not guaranteed) after dodge retaliation.

Warlord: I'd reduce the tracking on his Headbutt by just a little bit. Feels like his forehead has a magnet inside it.

Warden and vortex combos in general: while you can roll out of his vortex, the fact you have to do it makes the game frustrating. I don't think you should be able to roll out of 50/50 combos, but I do think there should always be a way to avoid AND punish the vortex if you predict correctly. Right now you may be able to light attack a Warden when he charges in your face and cancels it in a guard break, but not all classes possess attacks that are fast enough for it. I think vortexes should be in the game, but in Warden's case, the cancel shouldn't be as quick, so that you can definitely get punished by a light attack if you get too predictable.

P.S. While this thread is about classes, can be get rid of revenge on gear in Elimination/Dominion? Getting Revenge after getting hit like 3 times is a bit silly. Stats in general really screw with the balance of the game, imo. I hope we won't see them in ranked mode.

[Somedudesome]

Fair points, i'd say if you want to keep the 50/50 on Warden, shorten the window to cancel it.

[UbiJurassic]

Great write-up and discussion on class balance! Thanks for taking the time to leave your comments, Arkenelric!

[Somedudesome]

That's very kind UbiJurassic!! I really appreciate the response. I know you guys are busy but we'd love some feedback/thoughts from you guys.

[Panzer_Cmndr]

I disagree strongly with most of the Asian classes, they are far from balanced and very much OP, hence the migration towards them by most. It is nothing to see these classes with double digit kills and zero to three deaths per match.

[Thanapetus]

Allow me to retort to your analysis

Wardens: Fine as is

Conqueror: Need stamina reduction and shieldbash needs to push back much more. Seriously, a giant tin can sprinting should be able to slide someone backwards if the nodashi can kick them backwards standing still.

Peacekeeper: The bleed reduction should be down to 1 bar, I agree with the Zone attack but the mobility should be looked at. Peacekeepers with their speed/Damage need a serious adjustment.

Lawbringer - Running charge should be unblockable if conqueror has an unblockable charge, lawbringer should have some form of attack speed increase no more than 10-15% OR stamina reduction by the same amount

I have yet to play a Viking so it would be unfair for me to comment outside of this.

Raiders need to have swing speed or stamina reduction

Now the Samurai

I think the Kensei is fine. Overall, solid class and in my opinion the most balanced class in the game.

Shugoki- Same treatment as Lawbringer and Raider. Swing speed OR stamina reduction. You complain about Shugoki run but dont mention the mobility and swing speed of other classes?

Orochi- Need serious swing speed reduction OR damage reduction. Dodges should be a tactical choice not part of a kit.

Nobushi - bleeds off a light attack chain? GTFO with that. Nobushi can bleed but any other bladed/piercing weapon cant?


Overall the game needs:
a) Revenge mode replaced with chance to inflict bleed and higher the chance the less damage a bleed can do. Bleeds should do no more than 20% damage and killing X amount of soldiers with the right perk should cure it. (Dont try and play the realism card with me, Ill rip that apart with a verbal barrage that will unwind your very existence)

b) Matchmaking based off of characters not overall achievement. If I am playing a rank 2 kensei and I decide to play a warden I shouldnt be lumped into rep 4 108 peacekeepers

C) Dedicated servers- the benefits of customer happiness will be rewarded with continued revenue and your microtransaction planning

D) A way to rate players and/or block them so players dont have to play with/against them again.

[Gensui.Musashi]

at the end you all just cry about the orochi. i never had any problems with killing him. maybe you just cant react. who knows.



let me tell you a real problem. I dont have full gear but when someone hit me i instantly get revenge.

[ThePollie]

If you slow down the zone-attack on Wardens you will kill the ability.

It's a high-cost/low damage ability that is brutally punished by even a mere block. If you make it even easier to block, you will kill any use this ability has.

There is a reason Orochi storm-rush sees virtually no use at high-level play. It's too slow and obvious, you get parried every time.

[xW11nD]

Orochi- Need serious swing speed reduction OR damage reduction. Dodges should be a tactical choice not part of a kit.

Nobushi - bleeds off a light attack chain? GTFO with that. Nobushi can bleed but any other bladed/piercing weapon cant?

I think a little damage reduction on the orochi should suffice no? By being decent at blocking/countergbing you can already counter the orochi quite a lot, since his attacks are fairly easily predictable. Being good at blocking and cbg leaves the orochi only with little options left.

As for the nobushi, personally I literally have no problems with her. What I do is just playing of the mistakes she makes, or come close focus on blocking and when she starts to move back more ill throw in feints/gbs.