-Is the game healthier with environmental kills enabled- | Forums

[yenboi3025]

TLDR: Who on the dev team proposed environmental kills?

Who on the dev team came up with this in a meeting at 1:30 on a tuesday after a company lunch to say goodbye to project head?

Seriously. I look at games that have longevity and success and I'm seeing sharp discrepancies between them and FH.

Not least of which is the ability to instantly kill an opponent from full health because you missed a .15 second interval to press a button.

The git gud factor. I've heard the argument that that gb's almost completely go away at higher levels due to the skill is there to respond quick enough to the prompt.

Ok. I'll buy that. I'll take games balanced at the higher end of the skill spectrum. Means I have something to shoot for.

But imagine this for a second.

For Honor no longer has environmental kills.

What breaks? Does anything? Are game modes no longer balanced? Do items with throw distances no longer mean anything? Are some classes now without a playstyle?

I have no doubt something will change.
But I think the community as a whole is willing to give up whatever imaginable benefit there is from tech kills for a game that is more focused on the core gameplay mechanics than the "floor is lava" minigame.

"You should always be aware of your surroundings"

WHY!? What game has you THIS afraid of the edge of a map? I'm not talking about a 25-50% increase in ability while in the jungle as league or circling a map in a shooter to keep your back safe.

Your observation of your surroundings is moot if there is little to no counterplay.

Compromise. Give us the option to turn off environmental kills in certain game modes.

Thanks in advance for responses.

[PrimaGoosa]

I personally think the environment adds tension to the game that you just don't get from other games. Maneuvering someone to an edge area, standing guard near a bridge hole, throwing someone into a fire. All of this is part of the larger awareness game.

A bit of frustration dying in a single instance to a missed guard break tech I think is a small price to pay for something like this.

For me anyway.

[GreenRanger XI]

If you can kill somebody within 1 button on ANY game that game official stoops to the same skill level as rock, paper, scissors.

[RahnuLe]

When it comes right down to it, being able to kill someone from full health on a single failed button press is absolutely one of the worst aspects of the game as it is today. It's probably highest on my list of "not fun" mechanics in this game (you folks probably already know the others on my list). I don't feel good doing it and I don't feel good being on the receiving end.

I wouldn't cry one bit over them being removed entirely.

I'll note that Soul Calibur had similar issues with their ring-out mechanic, but at least there you didn't have characters quite thoroughly built around it, with the ability to drag someone all the way over from the middle of the ring to the edge in one go. Seriously, who thought that was a good idea?

At the very least, requiring opponents be exhausted before they get flung off the map would be a HUGE improvement, and a great incentive to manage your stamina more carefully. As it is, exhaustion hardly means anything, since you can still interrupt guard breaks and block/parry every attack. Over the long haul, it'd be a much better way to handle the mechanic. At least there would be more play involved than timing one single, solitary button press.

[PrimaGoosa]

Actually, being out of stamina means two important things:

You can't cancel heavy attacks.

You can't roll.

Feinting someone out of stamina, especially with an unblockable, can reliably draw out a nice slow heavy to then parry, throw them on the ground, and do optimal damage. If someone can't roll away from a situation some heroes can also ramp up the pressure.

It adds to the mind games and can be very bad to find yourself in.

I'm pretty sure all 1v1 maps are majority open flat space. I could be wrong, but if a few bridges or edges exist, the better player should still more often come out on top.

I love the tension and variety, personally.

[RahnuLe]

You can't roll, sure, but you can still dodge, and more importantly, you can still dodge backwards, which makes unblockables entirely useless in that scenario (and more importantly, not even every class has an unblockable to use to force that response). As far as I'm concerned, someone being exhausted just means more time wasted chasing after a moving target.

Defensive abilities in this game are far too powerful, frankly. But that's a topic for another thread.

[yenboi3025]

At the very least, requiring opponents be exhausted before they get flung off the map would be a HUGE improvement, and a great incentive to manage your stamina more carefully. As it is, exhaustion hardly means anything, since you can still interrupt guard breaks and block/parry every attack. Over the long haul, it'd be a much better way to handle the mechanic. At least there would be more play involved than timing one single, solitary button press.

Right!? Give us something, make it part of the equation instead of a "looking to topdeck lethal" kinda system. Its THAT random.

[Melekiasa]

Ok. I'll buy that. I'll take games balanced at the higher end of the skill spectrum. Means I have something to shoot for.

But imagine this for a second.

For Honor no longer has environmental kills.

What breaks? Does anything? Are game modes no longer balanced? Do items with throw distances no longer mean anything? Are some classes now without a playstyle?

I have no doubt something will change.
But I think the community as a whole is willing to give up whatever imaginable benefit there is from tech kills for a game that is more focused on the core gameplay mechanics than the "floor is lava" minigame.

For Honor no longer has different classes.

What breaks? Does anything? Everyone is on equal footing now and can be truly competitive. Balance will be so much easier.

Environmental kills exist because the developers wanted them to. To increase a player's options and risk. You have such things in these types of games so that the player has to consider more than just their opponent's attacks but also what those attacks might do to them. This is a good thing. This IS a core gameplay mechanic.

Just as you have to think about what attack you might need to defend against or how you yourself will attack, you also have to be mindful of the area you fight in. Currently in 1v1 maps, I cannot think of a single arena that has 100% unavoidable deathtraps - yes even the forest bridge (get off the damn bridge if you don't want to play that game).

"You should always be aware of your surroundings"

WHY!? What game has you THIS afraid of the edge of a map? I'm not talking about a 25-50% increase in ability while in the jungle as league or circling a map in a shooter to keep your back safe.

Your observation of your surroundings is moot if there is little to no counterplay.
Thanks in advance for responses.

THIS game has you afraid of the edge of the map. Are you really that uncomfortable with a game that's not like all the others? Does everything have to be completely derivative of Call of Duty or "popular MOBA #323"? Each character will always be the same as they are (barring balance tweaks and whatnot obviously). The environment you fight in, however, is always changing. This allows every battle to play out differently, with changing variables to account for and address. **IT ADDS DEPTH TO THE GAME** This is a good thing.

The counterplay is either A) Don't fight on the side of mountain or B) Use the combat mechanics skillfully to prevent the enemy from throwing you off it and/or C) Outplaying your opponent and throwing THEM off the mountain first.

The battle on the edge is tense and visceral and one that I find to be a refreshing break between slowly circle and try to bait a parry.

[Erock_LeVan]

I personally think it's a good feature of the game even though it happens to me often. It makes you be aware of where you are and makes it more realistic. Also remember GB counters are coming back.

[Nimassus91]

I personally think the envoiremental kills are kind of fair. If 3 people try to gank a singleone standing guard on a bridge, he has an absolutely easy advantage to even out the fight quickly. But it can abused super easy by those who dont have enough skill to fight in this game. or who were given an ability thats just to perfect to throw down people like the raider does.