Block fix | Forums

[Mr_Gallows]

The main problem is that light attacks are currently hard to block and heavy attacks are hard not to block. With the current system there is no way to fix this. There is an easy solution though.

Split the blocking into two states: Fast block and full block. As soon as you hit the block direction you are in fast block which will block light attacks. After a number of frames you are in full block and can block heavy attacks. No effect on attacking. The UI for it would just be the indicator filing up quickly, like the reverse of the assassins block fading out.

With that system the blocking could be balanced much better without ruining the ability to block light attacks or making heavy attacks impossible to land. Balancing it is just a matter of tuning the number of frames from fast block to full block.

An option would be slightly reduced damage from a fast blocked heavy attack. It would be worth considering if parry should be possible only from the correct block state, but even if you could parry a heavy from fast block state, it would be better than the current system.

With that in place some of the silly moves to allow for landing heavy hits freely could also be balanced better and focus could be on the very core of the game - the three attack/defence directions.

[mhartvig]

It would only benefit certain types of playstyles. I think that shouldn't be changed.
There are so many options already.

If you meet anyone good (doing deflects/parry against you), you already have other options to counter their skills (you may leave the noob style, and enter the mind games now).
Just consider feinting the heavy if you expect a deflect, and then do a guardbreak while they dash - or something similar with parry.

[Mr_Gallows]

Yes I know you can do it but heavy attacks are easy to block regardless and what you mention would still be needed. even parrying is fairly easy. This would just be an added layer to both make simple feints more useful for landing heavy attacks and to make it possible to balance light attacks better.

[Mr_Gallows]

It needs a fix, because the two very different speeds of light and heavy attacks make blocking unbalanced.

[Mr_Gallows]

They will never be able to fix the issues with some characters being able to spam light, while at the same time allowing for the possibility of landing heavy attacks, unless they take a new approach to blocking.

[Czarny-]

I think just removing the slight delay of the block would fix all the light spam attack issues. Right now is like 0,5 sec to 1 sec delay, you have to rely on animation and not the indicator.

[Mr_Gallows]

I think just removing the slight delay of the block would fix all the light spam attack issues. Right now is like 0,5 sec to 1 sec delay, you have to rely on animation and not the indicator.

Yes it would help... but on the flipside it will just make heavy attacks even easier to block. Since there is a difference in speed between light and heavy attacks, block must also have two states for the defence/offence balance to work. I have no idea why the developers didn't realise this.

[Mr_Gallows]

Just a bit more in depth explanation of the system I propose and why it would work.

1. Why would it work?
It is easy to implement and doesn't require any animation work or anything. It woiuld make heavy attacks only slightly easier to attack than light attacks (on average, because there are speed differences between classes, but more on this later). It would allow more focus on the core system of the three-way attack/defence system and not having to rely on GB and other mechanics to land a a heavy attack - those can still be used at high level play, but they can then be balanced better, so they are not as dominating in terms of landing heavy attacks. The game will be much easier to balance.



2. How to implement it?

a. First the block should have two states as explainted in the first post, to force players to react to heavy attacks in time to make a full block. A heavy attack hitting a block that isn't yet full will do slightly reduced damage, but the defender can still parry a heavy attack from a block that isn't full. Remove all delay from blocking, because with this system it isn't needed, and the game can feel responsive and predictable.

b. Characters should then be balanced in terms of speed and damage of attacks. The characters are already very different in playstyle and the difference in attack speed between characters should be toned down a bit. Everything balanced with damage of course.

c. GB can then be balanced to be used as a tool against defensive characters and not used by defensive characters to go on the offensive by parry. Remove the 100% GB after parry, and instead let parry be purely as a defensive tool, that only switches initiative from the defender to the attacker and not secures safe hits. Parry will do several things. It will push back the opponent like now, so he cannot attack again without getting hit first if the defender counterattacks. Second parry will switch the guard of the attacker to a different position. Third parry will drain stamina from the attacker as it does now. A GB can still be attempted but it is possible to counter it. This opens up a lot of different options for the person making a successful parry, while still allowing defence,

d. Class balance could be done around the two states of block as well. Really quick characters with fast attacks may have to react just a few frames quicker to get a full block, to balance their offensive and defensive capabilities without gimping their ability to be quick. Balancing the differenc classes would be easier.


Dodge.
Dodge needs a fix as well, now we're at it. It is too easy to dodge and counter. You can use feints for force dodges, but since dodge is free it's really not working very well. Dodging should be a purely defensive tool like blocking, unless you do a deflect. Dodging should have a stamina cost and if you're exhausted you should only be able to block and parry. So if someone dodges your attack you should still be able to block if they didn't do a deflect. Dodge timing should be slightly tighter, so that if you dodge early, you get hit. This would allow for blocking the dodge counterattack without screwing the animations up too much. I am fine with deflect giving a free attack as this can more easily be countered through feints. Also limit side dodging against side attacks to only work if you dodge towards the attack or backwards. Top attacks can be dodged to either side, but not backwards unless you do an early roll. Just initial ideas, but I think a lot of people have ideas about how to fix dodge spam. It can be fixed in several ways, but it needs a fix.

[Czarny-]

Yes it would help... but on the flipside it will just make heavy attacks even easier to block. Since there is a difference in speed between light and heavy attacks, block must also have two states for the defence/offence balance to work. I have no idea why the developers didn't realise this.

Right now even with the delay i have no problem with parrying the heavy attacks with Orochi, and when i switch to Valk is .. much more easier, so i think it will not affect the hard hits at all.
If you are hit by hard its almost always after stun, GB or other thing or you just horribly messed up the block

[Mr_Gallows]

Right now even with the delay i have no problem with parrying the heavy attacks with Orochi, and when i switch to Valk is .. much more easier, so i think it will not affect the hard hits at all.
If you are hit by hard its almost always after stun, GB or other thing or you just horribly messed up the block

Which is exactly what this fix adresses - the balance issue between blocking heavy and light attacks. This fix could make heavy attacks harder to fully block without ruining the block balance in relation to light attacks

Because yes, right now if you get hit by a heavy attack it was because of GB or similar - or because you were sleeping.